Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

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Marcie
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Marcie »

I'm going to miss those wedge fries in Forest.
Rookie 29
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Rookie 29 »

Heard from a reliable source that it's a done deal approved by OHA and just needing Middlesex Centre council stamp of approval. Lambton Shores will be playing out of Komoka next fall
FrozenPonds
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

Hopefully that doesn't equate to having more opportunity to sell-off players and be non-competitive all in the name of revenue! If that continues to happen, you could put them between periods at a Leaf game and no one would have interest!
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

Hopefully that practice comes to an end with this move. With better access to players and 1st dibs on the Chief grads the Preds should easily be able to achieve a plus 500 record annually.
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

They will not be getting "1st dibs" on the Chief players, they are Mid-Elgin Chiefs, many of those players come from Aylmer, St. Thomas, Port Stanley, West Lorne, Glencoe, Strathroy, Lucan, Parkhill, etc,etc, just as the Legionnaires do not get "1st dibs" on Lambton Sting nor does Chatham get "1st dibs" on Chatham-Kent Cyclones, nor does St. Marys get "1st dibs" on Huron-Perth Lakers, nor does Lassale get "1st dibs" on Sun County Panthers or Windsor Jr. Spitfires, or do the Nationals get "1st dibs" on the London Jr. Knights, all AAA midget players are free to sign where they wish based on the GOJHL import and underage rules of course.
As I said I wish them luck but they will draw no better there than they did in Forest or Petrolia.
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

All London players are required to be released by the London Nationals before trying out with another Jr B team. Reason is because they have a club to club affiliation with the junior Knights. If the Preds do a club to club the same rules would apply. Fun fact, 3 years ago the Strathroy Rockets traded Trevor Dulongs rights to the London Nationals for the signing rights to defencemen Evan Hogg and Derrick Johnson. Both were playing for the Jr Knights at the time so their rights had to be acquired for the Rockets to gain access to them.
Caledonia Fan
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Caledonia Fan »

http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2017/05/ ... -to-komoka

Things I never knew about the Predators
- Nine years in Forest
- 6 times finished last
- never placed higher than eighth
Maybe a move is the best thing
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Lets face it, location is only part of the problem, sure Forest has no post secondary education and job placements are limited but being in Komoka will be no better for them, just look at St. Marys , they are closer to London and the players that move into the area going to Western and Fanshaw but they are no better off than the Predators were, the big problem that I have been saying for ten years is that teams HAVE to be able to deny a players trade request simply because they now want to return home and play with their friends.

I have said all along that St. Marys and Lambton Shores are nothing more than a farm team for the Nationals. Kids try out for the Nationals, get cut so they go to St Marys or Forest, make the team, play there for 2 - 3 years get developed, gain experience, and now want to go back to a "deep pocketed" team like the Nationals who are now willing to sign them. Look at the Nationals roster over the years they are always one of the oldest teams, how many years now have the Lincolns lost players that they have developed for 2 - 3 years only to go back to London for a long playoff run. They work out a trade, the Nationals get 1 or 2 of the Lincs top players and the Lincs get 2 or 3 young prospects that they can develop until the Nationals want them back in 2-3 years time and the cycle continues. Same with Lambton, not that long ago they were finally showing signs of having a good year and would likely have been one of the better teams in the league but coach Davis moves to Chatham and all of a sudden their two top forwards and best defenseman end up in Chatham too. Kyle Brothers went on to win the GOJHL scoring title that year with 122 pts, Adam Arsenault chipped in 71 pts in 34 games with Chatham, Tanner Ferguson added 38 pts in 32 games on defense with Chatham. If those 3 players remained in Lambton perhaps they finish 3rd and the Maroons finish 9th.

The way it is now ( weather its through another teams interference who knows ) a player will say to his current team I want to be traded and the team has no choice but to move him to where he wants to go because he dose not have to accept a trade to where he does not want to go, a team cannot refuse to trade a player because than the GOJHL and the OHA step in and tell the team "to work something out".
Unless this changes it will remain status quo and the weaker teams will remain weaker teams.
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

The buildings other main tennant, EMC, sent correspondence to the municipality supporting bringing the Preds to Komoka. Given that the EMC minor midget coach is a former Preds coach and Don Dickson's long association with both EMC and Dave Warren it isn't a stretch to think that EMC and the Preds would work together to promote the Preds as a better alternative to teams like St Thomas and Strathroy to Chiefs alumni. A good working relationship with a Jr team will also help EMC get a Major Midget team again. The move also reduces the overall travel in the West. Looks like a win-win for all concerned
Drummer
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Drummer »

Totally new to this, but can someone explain how residential rules work for Junior B in relation to 16 year olds and who they are property of? Also, with this move to Komoka for the Preds does that change any of these rules for players that graduated a Chief even though they live in other areas such as Strath, St. T, London, etc?
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

As Far as I know and I could be wrong and if I am I am sure somebody will let us know but I believe it is all based on your home center ie St. Thomas, Strathroy , etc, etc.
Lets say you play for the Chiefs but your home minor hockey center is Strathroy, because Strathroy has a Jr.B team I believe you would be required to try out for them first, if you make it fine, if you don't you would have to get a permission to skate form from the Rockets ( which is a formality because obviously they cut you ) and you could go anywhere else.
Same would hold true for any minor hockey center that provides a Jr. B team such as St. Thomas, London, St. Marys, etc, etc.
If You live in say Lucan or West Lorne and play for the Chiefs I believe you could try out for any Jr. B team because neither Lucan or West Lorne provide a Jr. B team to play on.
This is one area where I think the new Komoka team will also have a problem as they do not have a minor hockey system of their own.
Drummer
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Drummer »

Thanks DP, that was my understanding if your home minor hockey centre has a Junior B team as well but just wasn't sure. Also didn't know if the new Komoka team would change anything with all that given some of these kids will play their last minor hockey games in the same building where this team will play.
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Not to the best of my knowledge. Like I said I believe it is all based on your original home minor hockey system and the mileage rules that pertain to it set by the OMHA, not your AAA center. Can you imagine the out cry from St. Thomas and Strathroy if Komoka automatically got players that live in their towns just because they last played AAA in Komoka, not gonna happen
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Back a few years ago the Chiefs played their home game out of Brooke Side Arena in London but that didn't automatically make them London National prospects, then for a few years they played in the new arena in Aylmer and also used Strathroy but again they were not Rocket property heck they have even used St. Thomas arenas for home games. The fact that the Chiefs play in the same arena as the new Komoka Jr. B team really has no bearing on where graduates can choose to play. The Chiefs simply chose to play in Komoka because it was centralized between the vast area that is Elgin and Middlesex counties and would help in getting players out, (its a long drive from Parkhill or Glencoe to Aylmer), that and the fact that in Komoka they are the main tenant and had no problem getting all the ice they needed with the two rinks there.
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

If a team does a club to club affiliation with their local minor system all players that qualify residentially and have participated during the previous season in the affiliate's system must be released by the parent Jr B club before setting foot on another Jr B teams ice. Currently the London Nationals of one of a few teams where this applies. St. Thomas and Strathroy like many teams use affiliate at large systems so they forfeit any territorial rights. If you ask almost any GM they will claim that they own they have territorial rights but a quick call to the OHA will tell you if movement is restricted for you of not. Time will tell if the Preds and Chiefs adopt the same system the Nats and Jr Knights have. Bondy and Daniels can do all the crying they want but at the end of the day they need to be pro active if they want certain players, but still have to wait out teams like the Nats.
Doug
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Doug »

Dean or should I say "undertaker" ..... it seems that you are pretty excited about this move to Komoka. Does this mean that you will be asking for a trade from the Legionnaires for your son?
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

There has never been a club affiliation agreement between the Chiefs and anyone. The Chiefs used ice at Brookside, Aylmer St Thomas Strathroy and Glencoe when their home rink, old London ice House closed. They never had a home until the rink was built in Komoka and the Chiefs signed a long term deal to play there before construction. There is a reason the Chiefs logo is at center ice on the main pad. Residence is only part of the equation when it comes down to territorial rights.
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

"Bondy and Daniels can do all the crying they want but at the end of the day they need to be pro active if they want certain players, but still have to wait out teams like the Nats."

The Nationals get those kids because they are London minor hockey products with a London Address not because they played AAA.
There is no way the OHA will grant exclusive rights to Chief players to Komoka just because they share a building.
Can you imagine a player living in Aylmer having to drive past St. Thomas to go play for Komoka or a kid that lives and played in Strathroy for 10 years and with the Chiefs for 1 having to play Jr. B in Komoka.
Not gonna happen
FrozenPonds
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

I find it very ironic that the article evens mentions the "selling of players". That is what I have heard is the biggest issue with this club. Whether it is in Komoka or the Forest, if this owner, with league blessing, continues to sell off players to pocket cash, pretty soon the local support, if there is any to begin with, will turn their back on them and they will continue to live in the basement!

That's the problem in junior hockey today..too many "hockey stupid" people with money who really do not understand the game! Perhaps try another sport like, oh I don't know, maybe, baseball??

I believe you are correct. EMC are a "zone" team and take players from outside London city limits. But those players need to first go to the local JrB team first. Quite frankly, there really needs to be a better system in place. I know in the NAHL they hold a draft to tender players. Perhaps it is time the GOJHL look at doing something along the same lines. But with anything in this effed up province, you need to go through the OHA and all the politics!
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Yes the selling of players is a problem but in most cases its the players that initiate it. They tell their current team that they want to be moved to a certain team ( usually London ) and the current team has no choice but to move them, if they sit them then the league or the OHA step in and tell them to get something done (usually cash) . The kids have no loyalties to the teams that took them on and developed them when the other team wouldn't... and the cycle continues.
You are right about Roop,, all except the baseball part lol
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

Sometimes a player needs to be moved to a certain. Team for school. Imagine a kid in Pelham gets accepted to Western. Should the player be forced to finish his career in Pelham or be forced to quit. The owner coaches players etc are generally from London and have been for years. Still as pointed out earlier Roop will need to change more than his address to be successful in hockey. He needs to start building around his top players instead of selling them off, invest in trying to do more for his players instead of less. He can't possibly do worse than he did in Forest.
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Totally different than a player like Brandon Glover. Last year Glover was deemed expendable or not good enough to play for the Nationals. After 9 games with the Nats in the 15 - 16 season he had 1g 1a 2pts in 9 games. Now I am speculating but I would guess he was likely told that he was going to be released, he could have gone to play Jr. C but he accepted a deal to the Lincs, key word is accepted because OHA will not enforce a trade if a player wish's not to go. This year After 28 games Brandon is the Lincs leading scorer with 16g 22a 38pts when he decides he would like to return to London and play with his friends and of course the Lincs must accommodate him because the OHA says they must get something done. Now even if he was a Western or Fanshaw student travelling to St.Marys is not such a hardship that it would interfere with his schooling.
That is the kind of thing the league needs to address. Show a little loyalty to the team that took you in and gave you a place to play when the other team didn't want you.
FrozenPonds
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

If a players signs with a certain team and for no other reason but his own selfishness wants out...I say let him sit!! Education, that is a different matter altogether. And I am sure you could group Thorold in there with Lambton Shores. Thorold got rid of their best player last year to Chatham at or near the deadline and I am pretty sure it wasn't for educational reasons although I could be wrong.

As I said earlier, hockey in this province is effed up and it begins with the OHF and the OHA. If they can arbitrarily come in and "coerce" a team to get something done, then the very cards they hold so close to their chest are not worth the paper they are printed on. The league, and it's teams, should operate independently of the OHA with regards to operations. As long as the league operates within the confines of the OHA's constitution, then the OHA needs to remain hands off. When the OHA decided to let "private" ownership of minor/junior hockey teams, it allowed for those businesses to operate in their best interests as a business. The whole notion of "the best interests of the game" is a crock. It is what is in the best interests of the OHA.

I like the fact that Joe Machado stood up to the OHA but he will be painted as a rogue troublemaker by the powers that be. I still think this is going to be an interesting summer with regards to the OHA, GOJHL, Cambridge and the governance of Junior hockey in this province.
Marcie
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Marcie »

Sometimes a player doesn't get his way. I believe that Strathroy's Derek Nap was the highest scoring player in the West returning the following season. He wanted to play in London. A deal was never worked out. It went right to midnight on January 10. London wouldn't give Strathroy want they wanted. He missed the entire season, his last.
phillipdh
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by phillipdh »

Dr. Pepper wrote: Wed May 17, 2017 7:58 pm Totally different than a player like Brandon Glover. Last year Glover was deemed expendable or not good enough to play for the Nationals. After 9 games with the Nats in the 15 - 16 season he had 1g 1a 2pts in 9 games. Now I am speculating but I would guess he was likely told that he was going to be released, he could have gone to play Jr. C but he accepted a deal to the Lincs, key word is accepted because OHA will not enforce a trade if a player wish's not to go. This year After 28 games Brandon is the Lincs leading scorer with 16g 22a 38pts when he decides he would like to return to London and play with his friends and of course the Lincs must accommodate him because the OHA says they must get something done. Now even if he was a Western or Fanshaw student travelling to St.Marys is not such a hardship that it would interfere with his schooling.
That is the kind of thing the league needs to address. Show a little loyalty to the team that took you in and gave you a place to play when the other team didn't want you.
Sometimes a team will trade away a player to somewhere they know he will get more ice time, I know it's happened to some players in the past two years.
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RocketGirl
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by RocketGirl »

And in about 2 years time, the first team decides they want that player back because he's older now, and they prefer older players, and he's been developed. So they'll trade another 1 or 2 young guys to get that one back and in another 2 years time, the cycle repeats itself.
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Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

RocketGirl wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 12:18 pm And in about 2 years time, the first team decides they want that player back because he's older now, and they prefer older players, and he's been developed. So they'll trade another 1 or 2 young guys to get that one back and in another 2 years time, the cycle repeats itself.
Thank you, exactly what I have been saying, Until the league address's that problem the "have not's" will always be have not's.

I do not begrudge a player who is in his last year, the team he currently plays on is not going to make the playoffs or in all likelihood is not going to go very far and he would like a shot at winning it all before he is done, work out a trade with a contender move the player along and get a couple of prospects back that can help you get to that next level, win win for all involved.
Its the guys that have 2-3 years of eligibility left that hold a gun to a teams head that I think should be told by the league " sorry that team holds your Jr. B rights nothing we can do, hopefully you can work something out otherwise your only option would be to quit and go play in another league".
I can only speak of St. Marys, they in the past have been very good about asking players in their last year near the trade deadline what they would like to do, would you like to stay and try to make a go of it or would you like to move on somewhere else and we will try to accommodate you. I have respect for teams like that and I am sure that St. Marys is not the only ones that approach it that way, however in recent years, and I know I keep saying London Kids but that's because there is such an abundance of them that do not make the Nationals so they go out to the other local teams like, St. Marys, St. Thomas, Strathroy, and Lambton Shores and yes. play there and get developed, gain some size, learn some skill, and after 2-3 years they are now 18-19 and London wants them back. Sorry boys you should have played major midget, or Jr. C until you were ready to make the London team if you were not prepared to commit to the team that gave you your big break.
Again if it creates a hardship for school purpose's fine move the player, otherwise suck it up.
washedupp99
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by washedupp99 »

The Preds never had a chance with that owner and as long as the owner of the Preds stays the same these things will keep happening. Teams like London and Chatham spend money to be good and that guy wont spend a penny just look at the way he has run his team. He tried to move the team to Dorchester before the Dolphins and they wanted nothing to do with him. The happiest teams should be Sarnia and Petrolia and Mooretown Jr. C teams who won't lose border line players to the Preds anymore and if I were Strathroy or St. Marys I'd be pissed.
Mr.French
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Mr.French »

Rookie 29 wrote: Tue May 16, 2017 3:45 pm Heard from a reliable source that it's a done deal approved by OHA and just needing Middlesex Centre council stamp of approval. Lambton Shores will be playing out of Komoka next fall
Are the still called the Predators or new name ?
jimmorrison
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by jimmorrison »

Will Komoka draw enough talent to get the last playoff spot from last years 8th place team?
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