Zottl steps on Crowder
Moderator: RocketGirl
Zottl steps on Crowder
With 1:02 to go in the 3rd period tonight in Caledonia Crowder for Welland and Zottl on Caledonia fought. When both players got up Zottl stepped on Crowders head and cut him open pretty bad. Refs both missed it.
Last edited by GOJHLfan1 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
No intention whatsoever.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
just like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWMXQ7pbuVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWMXQ7pbuVY
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
I watched the clip at least 15 times. I watched his skate/leg, and I watched his face/head. To me, it looked like he couldn't even see as the linesmen had him in a hold by the shoulders trying to pull him up.GOJHLfan1 wrote:With 1:02 to go in the 3rd period tonight in Caledonia Crowder for Welland and Zottl on Caledonia fought. When both players got up Zottl stepped on Crowders head and cut him open pretty bad. Refs both missed it.
Check out the clip: http://www.fasthockey.com/watch?v=USf8SQXu
It looks like he had no way of knowing where he was stepping. When I clicked on the video, I was getting ready to say he should be done... But after watching the video, I don't see how anyone can say he stepped on him on purpose, and that they're 100% positive.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
I was at the game.Look to me Zotti cross checked Crowder into Conway.I thought Crowder did a good job jumping over Conway. I couldn't really see much where I was sitting.
Only when Crowder was skating back to his bench I could see the blood. I thought maybe he got cut from his helmet or his head hit the ice.
You would think if this was intentional the rif would have called it.
Only when Crowder was skating back to his bench I could see the blood. I thought maybe he got cut from his helmet or his head hit the ice.
You would think if this was intentional the rif would have called it.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
I enjoy a well played hockey game where both teams display skill, heart and control. Caledonia usually gives you that kind of game. They are deep in all three areas that I mentioned earlier. What I don't like is when their so called tough 20 year old guys decide to jump and fight 17 year old from their opposition. The lack of control they display this year was never evident in their two previous Sutherland Cup Championship years .Eventually this type of aggression usually explodes and destroys all around it. Better get it under control, nobody has given you your third in a row Sutherland Cup yet, you have to earn it.
Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:I enjoy a well played hockey game where both teams display skill, heart and control. Caledonia usually gives you that kind of game. They are deep in all three areas that I mentioned earlier. What I don't like is when their so called tough 20 year old guys decide to jump and fight 17 year old from their opposition. The lack of control they display this year was never evident in their two previous Sutherland Cup Championship years .Eventually this type of aggression usually explodes and destroys all around it. Better get it under control, nobody has given you your third in a row Sutherland Cup yet, you have to earn it.
Clearly you weren't at the game or you would have known that Zottls gloves never actually came off, so it wasnt really a fight.... Gotta love the know it alls that never leave their computer chairs and try and talk about the game!
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Clearly I was at the game. Clearly he jumped him, clearly he did get 5min major for fighting and clearly he is suspended for the next game. Sunnydays, what is not clear are those rose coloured sun glasses you are wearing.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
GOOD POST, thanks for saying some positive things about Caledonia.BeenThereDoneThat wrote:I enjoy a well played hockey game where both teams display skill, heart and control. Caledonia usually gives you that kind of game. They are deep in all three areas that I mentioned earlier. What I don't like is when their so called tough 20 year old guys decide to jump and fight 17 year old from their opposition. The lack of control they display this year was never evident in their two previous Sutherland Cup Championship years .Eventually this type of aggression usually explodes and destroys all around it. Better get it under control, nobody has given you your third in a row Sutherland Cup yet, you have to earn it.
All I've heard all weekend is they play goon hockey.
20 year olds jump and fight 17 year olds.
We have debated this before and probably will again.This happens and not just in Caledonia it's all over the league (JR-B)
I've seen it in JR-C, JR-A AND OHL.It comes down to that 20 year old thing again.I heard next year there going to change that.
But your right lack of discipline or control. I have said it on this form before I even posted a topic "Caledonia Lacks Discipline"
But I got no replies.Your right on, they better get it under control.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Clearly, 20 year olds have fought rookies on almost every team in the league. And what about that happening? If a 17 year old does something to instigate a fight, it's hard to feel sorry for them. I'm not saying that's always the case, I've seen 20 year olds beat on 16-17 year olds a lot, sometimes it's just gutless. Other times it's because that rookie had no problem slamming a 20 year old into the boards from behind. In those situations, gotta deal with the fight that's sure to follow.BeenThereDoneThat wrote:Clearly I was at the game. Clearly he jumped him, clearly he did get 5min major for fighting and clearly he is suspended for the next game. Sunnydays, what is not clear are those rose coloured sun glasses you are wearing.
In last nights case, I really didn't see a need for a fight. The Welland player jumped over the goalie, there was no need to fight him. But that stuff happens, a lot in this league.
Guess it's only news when it's Caledonia!
Last edited by Port hockey1 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
It won't matter until the league finals. By then the refs are letting a lot more go. But I'm sure Caledonia will get some ridiculous calls on them. They have a great penalty kill and power play. Unless they play 10 minutes shorthanded every period, I don't think it will really affect a series as much, not this season anyway.Caledonia Fan wrote:GOOD POST, thanks for saying some positive things about Caledonia.BeenThereDoneThat wrote:I enjoy a well played hockey game where both teams display skill, heart and control. Caledonia usually gives you that kind of game. They are deep in all three areas that I mentioned earlier. What I don't like is when their so called tough 20 year old guys decide to jump and fight 17 year old from their opposition. The lack of control they display this year was never evident in their two previous Sutherland Cup Championship years .Eventually this type of aggression usually explodes and destroys all around it. Better get it under control, nobody has given you your third in a row Sutherland Cup yet, you have to earn it.
All I've heard all weekend is they play goon hockey.
20 year olds jump and fight 17 year olds.
We have debated this before and probably will again.This happens and not just in Caledonia it's all over the league (JR-B)
I've seen it in JR-C, JR-A AND OHL.It comes down to that 20 year old thing again.I heard next year there going to change that.
But your right lack of discipline or control. I have said it on this form before I even posted a topic "Caledonia Lacks Discipline"
But I got no replies.Your right on, they better get it under control.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Caledonia Fan, kind of sounds like we are on the same page. I don't mind a good scrap in a game as long as things are kept under control and the teams involved respect the game. Caledonia is not the only team that looses control every now and then, there are others that do the same but not as often.
We all need to stop being so negative on teams and players in this league. Think of what people think when they only come on here occasionally. They must think we are really bush when all we do is slam each others team's, owners and players. No wonder some have quit posting here. you don't see the West or Mid-West beat up on each other like our Division does.
Lets try and turn this thing around and start posting the good things that happen in the GOJHL. Lets promote the positive things that our players do in our communities. Lets all promote this league because we all know the OHA has truly failed in doing so.
We all need to stop being so negative on teams and players in this league. Think of what people think when they only come on here occasionally. They must think we are really bush when all we do is slam each others team's, owners and players. No wonder some have quit posting here. you don't see the West or Mid-West beat up on each other like our Division does.
Lets try and turn this thing around and start posting the good things that happen in the GOJHL. Lets promote the positive things that our players do in our communities. Lets all promote this league because we all know the OHA has truly failed in doing so.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
So we should only post the positive news and sweep the negative under the rug... Interesting, but I'd have to disagree. Nobody believes anyone/thing is perfect.BeenThereDoneThat wrote:Caledonia Fan, kind of sounds like we are on the same page. I don't mind a good scrap in a game as long as things are kept under control and the teams involved respect the game. Caledonia is not the only team that looses control every now and then, there are others that do the same but not as often.
We all need to stop being so negative on teams and players in this league. Think of what people think when they only come on here occasionally. They must think we are really bush when all we do is slam each others team's, owners and players. No wonder some have quit posting here. you don't see the West or Mid-West beat up on each other like our Division does.
Lets try and turn this thing around and start posting the good things that happen in the GOJHL. Lets promote the positive things that our players do in our communities. Lets all promote this league because we all know the OHA has truly failed in doing so.
I look at it like people can read both sides and decide for themselves. It would be pretty boring if we only posted the 'positive' news, imo.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Your both right, I liked both posts. I think Port, myself and others try to put good information on this forum.Port hockey1 wrote:So we should only post the positive news and sweep the negative under the rug... Interesting, but I'd have to disagree. Nobody believes anyone/thing is perfect.BeenThereDoneThat wrote:Caledonia Fan, kind of sounds like we are on the same page. I don't mind a good scrap in a game as long as things are kept under control and the teams involved respect the game. Caledonia is not the only team that looses control every now and then, there are others that do the same but not as often.
We all need to stop being so negative on teams and players in this league. Think of what people think when they only come on here occasionally. They must think we are really bush when all we do is slam each others team's, owners and players. No wonder some have quit posting here. you don't see the West or Mid-West beat up on each other like our Division does.
Lets try and turn this thing around and start posting the good things that happen in the GOJHL. Lets promote the positive things that our players do in our communities. Lets all promote this league because we all know the OHA has truly failed in doing so.
I look at it like people can read both sides and decide for themselves. It would be pretty boring if we only posted the 'positive' news, imo.
EX.-Port put on about the former Corvair in the car crush
Just go through the post a lot of them are good information.
I know on the Western Hockey Forum that RocketGirl had a good idea.She wanted to know if anyone had information on events in there rinks . She would put it in her weekly GOJHL preview.
Port is right about a good discussion about a post. If you don't agree with it say something. If you agree say something. Sure there going to get heated once in while.(check out the JR-C forum) That's the passion people have for there team or morals. There's nothing wrong with that.
BTDT you hit the nail on the head when you said."as long as things are kept under control and teams involved RESPECT the game"
You could add RESPECT each other to that.
I think this should be applied to this form too. A good discussion on a topic is great.
But let's show some RESPECT.
I found this on Bill Potrecz twitter
Bill Potrecz Retweeted
Steve Ludzik jr @ludzy8 Jan 23
We hated the Thorold Blackhawks with a passion that would be difficult to put into words....but did we ever respect them.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Can you share a link to the Jr.C forum?Caledonia Fan wrote:
Your both right, I liked both posts. I think Port, myself and others try to put good information on this forum.
EX.-Port put on about the former Corvair in the car crush
Just go through the post a lot of them are good information.
I know on the Western Hockey Forum that RocketGirl had a good idea.She wanted to know if anyone had information on events in there rinks . She would put it in her weekly GOJHL preview.
Port is right about a good discussion about a post. If you don't agree with it say something. If you agree say something. Sure there going to get heated once in while.(check out the JR-C forum) That's the passion people have for there team or morals. There's nothing wrong with that.
BTDT you hit the nail on the head when you said."as long as things are kept under control and teams involved RESPECT the game"
You could add RESPECT each other to that.
I think this should be applied to this form too. A good discussion on a topic is great.
But let's show some RESPECT.
I found this on Bill Potrecz twitter
Bill Potrecz Retweeted
Steve Ludzik jr @ludzy8 Jan 23
We hated the Thorold Blackhawks with a passion that would be difficult to put into words....but did we ever respect them.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Great lakes hockey
http://www.network54.com/Forum/626310
Junior C Hockey- Not as much traffic but a lot of views
http://ohajuniorc.proboards.com/board/2/hockey-talk
http://www.network54.com/Forum/626310
Junior C Hockey- Not as much traffic but a lot of views
http://ohajuniorc.proboards.com/board/2/hockey-talk
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Thanks. Is there a forum for the Niagara District Jr.C? I've been asking and some say there used to be one, others say there is one. But I can't find it...Caledonia Fan wrote:Great lakes hockey
http://www.network54.com/Forum/626310
Junior C Hockey- Not as much traffic but a lot of views
http://ohajuniorc.proboards.com/board/2/hockey-talk
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Welland appealed and 4 games Zottl has been suspended + his original for fighting in last 10 minutes. 5 games total. Match penalty for attempt to injure was added to the game sheet from this game.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
That's brutal, imoGOJHLfan1 wrote:Welland appealed and 4 games Zottl has been suspended + his original for fighting in last 10 minutes. 5 games total. Match penalty for attempt to injure was added to the game sheet from this game.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
I dont think it is. Doesn't matter if it was intentional or not he still did it. He said he didnt see him there? Maybe you should look before you step next time. Crowder could of been injured a lot worse then he was. Lucky.
Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
"Doesn't matter if it was intentional or not he still did it."
Respectfully disagree.
I've reviewed the video several times. Zottl is dragged over Crowder by the official. Players are supposed to be pulled away from the opposing player, not dragged over them due to potential risk for injury. Zottl's head is buried in the official's chest as he's being dragged over Crowder. There is no way he could have seen where he was putting his foot. He appears to be off balance as he's dragged; it's instinct to put your foot down when trying to regain balance. If he did step on him, it appears to be unintentional.
With respect to it being fortunate there was not further injury - completely agree. Keep in mind Crowder's gloves were off before Zottl even reached him. Players who engage in fighting invite injury - sometimes not only from the fight itself, but from falls to the ice, and other situations such as this one.
With respect to your comment quoted above; yes it does matter if it was intentional. The very defintion of a match penalty is "intent to injure." If there was no intent, a match penalty should not have been assessed.
Respectfully disagree.
I've reviewed the video several times. Zottl is dragged over Crowder by the official. Players are supposed to be pulled away from the opposing player, not dragged over them due to potential risk for injury. Zottl's head is buried in the official's chest as he's being dragged over Crowder. There is no way he could have seen where he was putting his foot. He appears to be off balance as he's dragged; it's instinct to put your foot down when trying to regain balance. If he did step on him, it appears to be unintentional.
With respect to it being fortunate there was not further injury - completely agree. Keep in mind Crowder's gloves were off before Zottl even reached him. Players who engage in fighting invite injury - sometimes not only from the fight itself, but from falls to the ice, and other situations such as this one.
With respect to your comment quoted above; yes it does matter if it was intentional. The very defintion of a match penalty is "intent to injure." If there was no intent, a match penalty should not have been assessed.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
"Keep in mind Crowder's gloves were off before Zottl even reached him"
That's BS! He still has 1 of his gloves on through the whole fight!!!!
He got ridden into the goalie and did an admirable job of trying to jump over the goalie to avoid collision. Didn't even make contact. Even John Molson who is the biggest homer you can be for Caledonia agreed. He gets jumped by a big 20 year old goon and has to protect himself and then gets his head stepped on to boot
That's BS! He still has 1 of his gloves on through the whole fight!!!!
He got ridden into the goalie and did an admirable job of trying to jump over the goalie to avoid collision. Didn't even make contact. Even John Molson who is the biggest homer you can be for Caledonia agreed. He gets jumped by a big 20 year old goon and has to protect himself and then gets his head stepped on to boot
Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Cant argue with you because yes I suppose you are right on definition of "intent to injure". Still do not fully agree it was unintentional though in the heat of the moment and clearly the league agreed. Guys obviously not going to admit if there was some intent either.keepcalm wrote:"Doesn't matter if it was intentional or not he still did it."
Respectfully disagree.
I've reviewed the video several times. Zottl is dragged over Crowder by the official. Players are supposed to be pulled away from the opposing player, not dragged over them due to potential risk for injury. Zottl's head is buried in the official's chest as he's being dragged over Crowder. There is no way he could have seen where he was putting his foot. He appears to be off balance as he's dragged; it's instinct to put your foot down when trying to regain balance. If he did step on him, it appears to be unintentional.
With respect to it being fortunate there was not further injury - completely agree. Keep in mind Crowder's gloves were off before Zottl even reached him. Players who engage in fighting invite injury - sometimes not only from the fight itself, but from falls to the ice, and other situations such as this one.
With respect to your comment quoted above; yes it does matter if it was intentional. The very defintion of a match penalty is "intent to injure." If there was no intent, a match penalty should not have been assessed.
Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Thanks for your input.
It was my intention to address the issue of the match penalty, and whether that specific penalty should have been assessed. There will be varying opinions; however I think it's important to address the issue, rather than labelling players. Disrespecting players, posters, fans, and officials does nothing to promote the league or the game. Both players fought, both were assessed fighting penalties and both were awarded due suspensions. The issue is the match penalty, which was assessed only after appeal, not at the time of occurrence.
It was my intention to address the issue of the match penalty, and whether that specific penalty should have been assessed. There will be varying opinions; however I think it's important to address the issue, rather than labelling players. Disrespecting players, posters, fans, and officials does nothing to promote the league or the game. Both players fought, both were assessed fighting penalties and both were awarded due suspensions. The issue is the match penalty, which was assessed only after appeal, not at the time of occurrence.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
But that's what the appeal process is for. For the OHA to review incidences and make further calls that the referees did not make, for whatever reason.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
How's he supposed to look when the linesmen has him by the shoulders pulling him to his feet? lolGOJHLfan1 wrote:I dont think it is. Doesn't matter if it was intentional or not he still did it. He said he didnt see him there? Maybe you should look before you step next time. Crowder could of been injured a lot worse then he was. Lucky.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Agree 100%.keepcalm wrote:"Doesn't matter if it was intentional or not he still did it."
Respectfully disagree.
I've reviewed the video several times. Zottl is dragged over Crowder by the official. Players are supposed to be pulled away from the opposing player, not dragged over them due to potential risk for injury. Zottl's head is buried in the official's chest as he's being dragged over Crowder. There is no way he could have seen where he was putting his foot. He appears to be off balance as he's dragged; it's instinct to put your foot down when trying to regain balance. If he did step on him, it appears to be unintentional.
With respect to it being fortunate there was not further injury - completely agree. Keep in mind Crowder's gloves were off before Zottl even reached him. Players who engage in fighting invite injury - sometimes not only from the fight itself, but from falls to the ice, and other situations such as this one.
With respect to your comment quoted above; yes it does matter if it was intentional. The very defintion of a match penalty is "intent to injure." If there was no intent, a match penalty should not have been assessed.
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Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
"But that's what the appeal process is for. For the OHA to review incidences and make further calls that the referees did not make, for whatever reason."
With respect to the posted comment above - agreed.
With respect to the assessment of a match penalty in this situation: disagree. A match penalty is a blatant intent/attempt to injure. If this incident truly met the criteria for a match penalty, I'm perplexed as to how 3-4 officials in the immediate vicinity of the incident were unable to assess such a penalty at the time. In any case, viewer opinion is irrelevant; the decision has apparently been made. Moving forward.
With respect to the posted comment above - agreed.
With respect to the assessment of a match penalty in this situation: disagree. A match penalty is a blatant intent/attempt to injure. If this incident truly met the criteria for a match penalty, I'm perplexed as to how 3-4 officials in the immediate vicinity of the incident were unable to assess such a penalty at the time. In any case, viewer opinion is irrelevant; the decision has apparently been made. Moving forward.
Re: Zottl steps on Crowder
Changed again. Now he has 11 games. He has appealed the extra 6 games though.