Can anyone stop Caledonia in a best of seven series?

[Port hockey1]

There's a lot of talk about Caledonia this season. Even more than usual. A lot of people don't think there's a chance that they'll
lose a best of seven series. Others think Kitchener of the Mid-West division is the only team with a shot at stopping Caledonia. Some have went as far to say this could be the best team the GOJHL has ever seen.

Here's a look at the three division leaders.

The Shoe:

Caledonia. 35 GP, 31-1-1-2(65 points). They sit in 1st place with a 19 point lead over Ancaster.

Home: 18-0-0-1
Away: 13-1-1-1

Streak: Won 9

205 goals for, 65 goals against, 1327 penalty minutes.

PP: 23.2%(1st)
PK: 90.7%(1st)


Mid-West:

Kitchener: 35 GP, 30-4-0-1(61 points). They sit in 1st place with a 8 point lead over Stratford.

Home: 14-3-0-0
Away: 16-1-0-1

Streak: Won 2

175 goals scored, 93 goals against, 883 penalty minutes.

PP: 22.4%(3rd)
PK: 84.5%(8th)


West:

Leamington: 31 GP, 26-4-1-0(53 points). They sit in 1st place with a 9 point lead over St.Thomas.

Home: 13-1-1-0
Away: 13-3-0-0

Streak: Won 8

138 goals scored, 60 goals against, 889 penalty minutes.

PP: 22.1%(4th)
PK: 89.9%(2nd)

[Port hockey1]

Just how deep Caledonia is

They have 9 forwards who average at least a point per game. They have 9 players who've played in the OHL, and 4 more who've played JR.A(OJHL), including their starting goalie.

Here's a list of their forwards averaging at least a point per game, and their top 3 defensemen.


Players name: GP Goals, Assists, Points:

C.Pawley 35, 22-62-84
M.Hore 33, 28-42-70
J.Brown 35, 32-23-55
B.Luscombe 28, 17-32-49
M.Graham 31, 8-23-31
Q.Maksimovich 25, 11-18-29
M.Fitzmorris 23, 12-16-28
D.Volpe 11, 8-6-14
T.Hill 2, 2-2-4

A.Brown 35, 15-31-46
T.Ratchford 33, 2-19-21
C.Bauman 23, 0-14-14

Ex OHL players include: C.Pawley(F), M.Hore(F), M.Graham(F), Q.Maksimovich(F), M.Fitzmorris(F), T.Seguin(F), C.Bauman(D), N.Zottl(D), & T.Hill(F).

Ex Jr.A players include: A.Brown(D), D.Volpe(F), J.Schaefer(D), & M.Sinclair(G).

Anyone think there's a realistic chance of them losing a best of seven series?

[Marcie]

Only if food poisoning or a freight train is involved, maybe both.

[Caledonia Fan]

Just how deep Caledonia is

They have 9 forwards who average at least a point per game. They have 9 players who've played in the OHL, and 4 more who've played JR.A(OJHL), including their starting goalie.

Here's a list of their forwards averaging at least a point per game, and their top 3 defensemen.


Players name: GP Goals, Assists, Points:

C.Pawley 35, 22-62-84
M.Hore 33, 28-42-70
J.Brown 35, 32-23-55
B.Luscombe 28, 17-32-49
M.Graham 31, 8-23-31
Q.Maksimovich 25, 11-18-29
M.Fitzmorris 23, 12-16-28
D.Volpe 11, 8-6-14
T.Hill 2, 2-2-4

A.Brown 35, 15-31-46
T.Ratchford 33, 2-19-21
C.Bauman 23, 0-14-14

Ex OHL players include: C.Pawley(F), M.Hore(F), M.Graham(F), Q.Maksimovich(F), M.Fitzmorris(F), T.Seguin(F), C.Bauman(D), N.Zottl(D), & T.Hill(F).

Ex Jr.A players include: A.Brown(D), D.Volpe(F), J.Schaefer(D), & M.Sinclaie(G).


Anyone think there's a realistic chance of them losing a best of seven series?

You forgot Matt McCartney ex OHL. Ryan Punkari, Jordan Brown and Corey Foster EX JR. A

[Port hockey1]

Looks like they're following Chatham's footsteps. Signed Davis Brown from the Sarnia Sting to Hagersivlle(Jr.C) with the intentions of calling him up for their games.

Can we just hand them the cup now?

[flyers2011]

If they stay healthy good luck beating them in a 7 game series.

[Port hockey1]

If they stay healthy good luck beating them in a 7 game series.

Leamington might have the golden ticket. It might just depend on how well their rookie goalie plays. If he keeps playing at the level he's at... Anything's possible.

[Caledonia Fan]

If they stay healthy good luck beating them in a 7 game series.

Leamington might have the golden ticket. It might just depend on how well their rookie goalie plays. If he keeps playing at the level he's at... Anything's possible.

I agree I said it before I'll love to see a Leamington and Caledonia in the Sutherland Cup. The two best teams in the GOJHL.
Port is right a hot goalie in the playoffs can take you a long way. I got a feeling the wildcard is coming out of the west again.

[jeff]

I think Caledonia has 17 or 18 twenty year old's in their lineup now ..... tough to compete against men and experience

[Oglethorp]

Is it still junior hockey when you dress a team that is 90% OA players. In reality a team this old should likely consider competing for the Allan Cup instead of playing against teams that are in general 2 years younger. This also draw to why it maybe time for the GOJHL to put limits on how many OA players can take roster spots. After all the league is supposed to be about development instead of a grazing pasture for players too old to stay in the OHL. The OHL limits OA spots to 3, perhaps a limit of 5 OA spots in the GOJHL might work better to help the league meet its objectives.

I think Caledonia has 17 or 18 twenty year old's in their lineup now ..... tough to compete against men and experience

[Marcie]

There has been some dicussion at the OHA level on these issues. If in fact we are a developental league then our purpose should be to develop young players. One suggestion put forth to them was to switch our underage (16-year-olds) and our overage (20-year-old) limits. Open things up for the 16-year-olds and allow unlimted 16-year-olds and just 2 twenty-year olds per team. It would be nice to fill the rink with young talent and scouts. Some feel we should have no 20-year-old at all. Wouldn't have an exodus of 20-year-olds to Junior C before December 1st either.

[Blades]

Can anyone explain to me why 20 year olds are considered OA in the Jr B level? I must confess that the only time I hear the term overage used is in the OHL. Not sure what Jr C call those who are 21 except that they are in their final year of play.

Would not be the first time that I have asked what seems like a silly question, but I am a bit ... confused, shall we say?

[jeff]

I would not consider 20 year olds as OA's at the Jr B level .... never have .... they are in their final year. In Jr C, that term has been used for the 21 year olds which makes sense because in theory it's the only OHA Jr league they can play in.

[Marcie]

Sorry I used the word "overage" to confuse matters. Should have just called them 20-year-olds.

[Blades]

Not a problem Marcie. You are not the first person to call players overage when they are 20 and still playing Jr B, and I doubt you will be the last. I just wondered how the league classifies them. I'm sure it's written somewhere ... but I'm just not up to looking and reading material online.

[Vairs61]

I don't consider 20yrs overage. I think if they did limit the number a team can carry it may lower the level of talent. I think having older kids playing makes for better hockey. There are 20yr players looking to play college hockey and continue developing, they also can bring valuable leadership to teams.
I think the OHA better be careful in making changes. The last thing they want to do is push talented 20yr players over to the GMHL that keep adding teams.
I don't think adding more 16 yrs is a great idea, let the younger guys develop in the minor systems in place.

[Port hockey1]

Is it still junior hockey when you dress a team that is 90% OA players. In reality a team this old should likely consider competing for the Allan Cup instead of playing against teams that are in general 2 years younger. This also draw to why it maybe time for the GOJHL to put limits on how many OA players can take roster spots. After all the league is supposed to be about development instead of a grazing pasture for players too old to stay in the OHL. The OHL limits OA spots to 3, perhaps a limit of 5 OA spots in the GOJHL might work better to help the league meet its objectives.

I think Caledonia has 17 or 18 twenty year old's in their lineup now ..... tough to compete against men and experience

To be fair, Caledonia continues to develop good young players. And as you said, as long as the league allows a team to fill their roster with 20 year olds, there's nothing wrong with it.

I've seen a lot of teams loaded with 20 year olds over the years, Niagara Falls in the late 90's-early 2000's comes to mind as an example. The issue most seem to have is the high level of talent Caledonia is able to obtain. I always hear people say this league is about development and Caledonia doesn't do that. But the fact is they do in fact develop young talent... At a better rate than some of the other top teams in in the league do.

I look at it like they have a small dynasty going, and it can't last forever. I'm enjoying it as a Welland & Chatham fan while it lasts.

[Port hockey1]

Interesting debate going here.

Some are saying we need to limit 20 year olds on a roster. But what happens when there's a team with 7-8 17 year olds, when they're all still there for that final season? It could be a dangerous move for a league that's already struggling to draw fans in many markets.

A lot of people also act like Caledonia is the enemy. Hardly, they're a huge resource when it comes to getting this league noticed. Last season a lot of their games were live on youtube, people were watching from Canada to Texas.

They also get a lot of scout attention, something this league craves and needs. They have a former player leading the AHL in defense scoring right now. They had a young kid(Murphy) lead the team in points two years ago. Those are just a few examples of what they do for the league, and of the many young players they've developed and sent to the AHL, CHL, and school.

It might be frustrating, or maybe it's jealousy because they look like they're about to set a record with a 3rd straight Sutherland Cup! I say jealousy because it's not like they're undefeated with a full roster of 1st line OHL caliber players. They've lost games to Ancaster & St.Catharines. They've played several close games to, including an overtime win over the last place Pelham Panthers.

I think the reason they are so good this season is their track record. These kids don't get dragged kicking & screaming. They take a look at the team's record and history, and the choice is easy.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think it's sad to see things like I read above about an organization that has done as much as it has for the league.

[OHAHockeyFan]

wake up. There's one reason (or should I say about 20,000 reasons) each of those ex-ohlers are on the corvairs
that's why everyone is mad. thorold can't go out and get davis brown let alone get him to sign with a jr c affiliate! sure, winning helps NO DOUBT. but you can't build a winner without money. it has nothing to do with owners being cheap. there isnt a single team in the gojhl that can afford what caledonia is doing. they arent earning championships, theyre buying them and if you can convince yourself to believe otherwise then you are totally oblivious or totally ignorant

[GoWest]

OHAHockeyFan, thank you!

Best post I've read on here in a long time.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

OHAHockeyFan. You nailed it. If Caledonia had to operate in the same manner as the other teams do, I don't think their below average attendance (9th worst in the league-230 avg.) would allow them to spend the amount they do to get the players they get. Caledonia is very fortunate to have the financial backing that they are blessed with and that is why they are able to attract the players they do. When you have an open cheque book to spend in any way you want it's easy to build winners at this level. Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse could operate this team with the freedom they have to spend at will.

[Qwerty]

Anything short of a three-peat with the roster management has purchased (truth) would be a failure and embarrassment for this club. It's a bit nauseating to see the # of ex-OHLers, 20-yr-olds and former OJs on the roster of a so-called Jr B team. But, you can't argue with success if it happens within the rules. Best stats in the league, almost across the board: most wins, fewest losses, highest GF, top scorer, best PP%, and best PK% which is astounding given they are the most penalized team (1345) by a huge margin compared to #2 Leamington (974). When you have the ability to stock affiliate C teams with ex-OHLers to bolster your line-up, well, who can compete with that? Last point: Leamington's good, but not the team they were last year. They'll be in tough against London, which has made some smart trades at the deadline. Kitchener and Stratford are a coin-toss, too. Whichever team comes to the Sutherland the healthiest will have the best shot at Caledonia, but something dramatic would have to happen to the Corvairs. Apparently, they win all their games playing half of them short-handed...

[Port hockey1]

wake up. There's one reason (or should I say about 20,000 reasons) each of those ex-ohlers are on the corvairs
that's why everyone is mad. thorold can't go out and get davis brown let alone get him to sign with a jr c affiliate! sure, winning helps NO DOUBT. but you can't build a winner without money. it has nothing to do with owners being cheap. there isnt a single team in the gojhl that can afford what caledonia is doing. they arent earning championships, theyre buying them and if you can convince yourself to believe otherwise then you are totally oblivious or totally ignorant

Davis Brown had to decide between more than just Caledonia. Leamington was in on him too. All the top teams pay players. All the teams have different budgets. Caledonia plays by the rules. If you want to be mad, be mad at the OHA.

But this is the best team they've had yet. So it's not like they're able to be this good every year. They have the Championship record in their sights, that's why they've went after additions so hard this season. This isn't house league.

The good teams got to where they are by building a reputation as a winner, and a club that will treat you right. There's several smaller market teams that go on a run every 3 or 4 years.

Caledonia has done nothing but help develop great talent, and win games. The two main goals of good clubs. They've done nothing wrong.

All I see is sour grapes!

[Port hockey1]

OHAHockeyFan. You nailed it. If Caledonia had to operate in the same manner as the other teams do, I don't think their below average attendance (9th worst in the league-230 avg.) would allow them to spend the amount they do to get the players they get. Caledonia is very fortunate to have the financial backing that they are blessed with and that is why they are able to attract the players they do. When you have an open cheque book to spend in any way you want it's easy to build winners at this level. Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse could operate this team with the freedom they have to spend at will.

I guess all the great young players they continue to develop means nothing. The leading defense scorer in the AHL, one step below the NHL is a former Caledonia player. They sent a kid to the QMJHL this season. Their young leading scorer from two years ago has moved up...

The Caledonia Corvairs deserve nothing but praise for what they've accomplished. A lot of development, and attracting a lot of scouts.

Sour grapes!

[three dog night]

Caledonia penalties time might stop them.

[Port hockey1]

Anything short of a three-peat with the roster management has purchased (truth) would be a failure and embarrassment for this club. It's a bit nauseating to see the # of ex-OHLers, 20-yr-olds and former OJs on the roster of a so-called Jr B team. But, you can't argue with success if it happens within the rules. Best stats in the league, almost across the board: most wins, fewest losses, highest GF, top scorer, best PP%, and best PK% which is astounding given they are the most penalized team (1345) by a huge margin compared to #2 Leamington (974). When you have the ability to stock affiliate C teams with ex-OHLers to bolster your line-up, well, who can compete with that? Last point: Leamington's good, but not the team they were last year. They'll be in tough against London, which has made some smart trades at the deadline. Kitchener and Stratford are a coin-toss, too. Whichever team comes to the Sutherland the healthiest will have the best shot at Caledonia, but something dramatic would have to happen to the Corvairs. Apparently, they win all their games playing half of them short-handed...

Anything short of a cup would be the biggest hockey failure that I've ever seen.

The West competed with Chatham when they had guys signed to Blenheim so they could be called up.

And leading the league in penalty minutes is an interesting story. We have refs making calls in an attempt to slow them down. Then there's players from other teams getting frustrated and taking liberty's at their players.

The last two years they were really banged up by the league finals from dealing with this so much. So this year they added a few kids from the OHL who can mix things up when needed, and put up points. Last season their top players would retaliate and be suspended.

Well, looks like Bullard fixed that problem. Whoever they face in the finals, it will be one of the best series seen in a long time. Goalies are always at their best in the playoffs. So things should be very entertaining.

[RocketGirl]

I've been quiet on the topic because I was writing this opinion piece about it. How Many Is Too Many? My take on the issue of 20 year olds.

http://overtimesportsnation.com/how-many-is-too-many/

[Oglethorp]

Very well written RG. A positive spin off that I can see with a limit restriction on 20 year olds is that teams will need to develop their younger players to be able to compete this season and not just be spectators as rookies. The other thing a limit would do is force the teams to be more selective with their 20 year olds and weed out players that plan on playing JrC as 21 year olds. I am sure your Rockets and Chatham would have benefited knowing that the players that started the season planned to still be in the league beyond December 1st. As for the dream of teams loading up with 16 year olds, as long as Hockey Canada limits how many to develop at the junior level rather than letting the talent level dictate when a player is ready, that will have stay status quo. Begs the argument, should we continue use the bottle neck effect at age 15 and 16 to maintain a large midget system or try to develop more elite players by allowing players to jump to Junior when ready regardless of age as was done prior to the Hockey Canada HDM implementation. Topic for another thread

[Vairs61]

Well written article. I hope the league does not make a snap decision based on one year. I look at jr hockey as a league for players 16-20. It is up to the teams how they put that 23 man roster together. Some focus on younger players, and cash in as they move up. Some develop and sell at the trade deadline and some want to win and are looking for the best players available. I don't think reducing the number of 20yrs or from which leagues they have played in will to anything but make this league weaker, at the same point making Jr C or the outlaw league better. Why would this league want to do this?
I think the bigger issue is the weaker teams, and how they operate. The focus should be on raising the level of hockey to make this league stronger. It's a great league and we should all want it to grow in the right direction, not take steps backwards.

[Oglethorp]

Well written article. I hope the league does not make a snap decision based on one year. I look at jr hockey as a league for players 16-20. It is up to the teams how they put that 23 man roster together. Some focus on younger players, and cash in as they move up. Some develop and sell at the trade deadline and some want to win and are looking for the best players available. I don't think reducing the number of 20yrs or from which leagues they have played in will to anything but make this league weaker, at the same point making Jr C or the outlaw league better. Why would this league want to do this?
I think the bigger issue is the weaker teams, and how they operate. The focus should be on raising the level of hockey to make this league stronger. It's a great league and we should all want it to grow in the right direction, not take steps backwards.

I am not sure that a system that allows the team with the deepest pockets to recruit more creates a stronger league. Most teams in the league can't do what Caledonia and a few others can due to finances. Maybe a system where if a 20 year comes in from another league the signing team pays a league fee to be distributed to the financially strapped teams to help them with the resources needed to build. The league has teams that are always buyers and ones that are always sellers at the trade deadline. Alternatively have the incoming 20 year olds go through a waiver process within their conference of choice would also create stronger more balanced league. The 20 year olds that showed up in Caledonia this year had to displace some younger players so in theory this system is already making Jr C stronger. 20 year old returning players to the league should be exempt and a system like this one would allow a team to keep the 20 year olds that were developed in the league playing here.

A strong league has a healthy number of strong teams that change season to season and can compete for the championship. If the number of have nots outnumber the haves, I wouldn't say we have a healthy league. We only have some healthy teams playing our league.