Owen Sound Greys

A place to discuss what's happening to those teams in the MidWest Conference for those who ARE interested.

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Owen Sound Greys

Post by RocketGirl »

I don't know much about the situation, but from what I read, the President of the Greys organization is trying to move the team. He's not the out-right owner of the team, it's non-profit and owned by the City of Owen Sound, but he's apparently had meetings with Brent Ladds about it. From what I read, the OHA is refusing to allow offsetting information be presented that would dispute the claims being made by Arsenault. As I'm not part of the Mid-West Conference, I can't really comment on it, but below is the link to the on-line petition to stop Mr. Arsenault from being able to move the team.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/savethegreys/
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

I was just about to post the same link.

This guy scared away Brian Warrilow, the other major sponsor, then replaced the BoG with a bunch of his cronies from Toronto who have probably never been to a Jr. B game since the Central or Metro Jr. B leagues were in town.

He does not own the team, but has been granted presumptive ownership by Brent Ladds despite the team being community owned. His intention is to start a Junior B team in the GTA, specifically Brampton and is willing to pull the Greys out on their 99th anniversary to do it.

Mr. Ladds and the MW Conference convener refuse to meet with representatives from the town or members of the management who actually participate in day-to-day operations.

I am not against Junior B in Toronto or East of Toronto... but why not start a new conference with new teams over there... not raid already established franchises? And what happened to bringing Junior A into Southwestern Ontario? Apparently Toronto Jr. B is more important than SW Ontario Jr. A...
Just A Fan

Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by Just A Fan »

the plan is to start another division (old metro) once the tier 2 contracts again. Most likely 13-14.

Owen sound couldn't support a jr team with richer Jr. C teams in the area. There were opportunities for others within the community to step up and keep the greys in Owen Sound (from my understanding) but that didn't happen.

My guesstimation is that Brampton is in the mid west next year...the toronto teams contract for 13-14 then they'll set up a 4th division of Jr. B.
Ideally there will be a smaller tier 2 (similar to the BCHL) which, theory, will be a premier league (for lack of a better term). There will then be 4 divisions of Jr. B rather then 3.
- Metro
GHL (move Brantford to that division)
MW (move St. Marys to that division)
West (add a potential team playing Jr. C currently who wants to move up to B)

Then they'll truly have a east west conferences...mid west and west playoff, GHL and metro play off with the 2 conference winners playing for the sutherland cup.

In reality it adds another round of playoffs replacing the current round robin of 3 division winners.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

I grant you that the Greys had been put on notice for poor on-ice product and their finances have not been amazing...

BUT... I look at all the OHA junior hockey towns that have locally disappeared under Ladd's watch in that area... Wiarton Wolves, Port Elgin Bears, Meaford Monarchs, Durham Huskies, Southampton Mariners, Markdale Mohawks, Arthur Eagles, Collingwood Blues, Brussels Bulls, Grand Valley Harvesters, Lakeshore Pirates (Ripley/Goderich), Seaforth Centenaires, Shelburne Wolves... ... I find it almost no shock that Ladds would have no problem with ditching the Greys too.

I feel, as a hockey fan, that Arsenault presented himself as a wolf in sheep's clothing to the organization and town... I don't think he ever had the intention of keeping hockey afloat in OS... and what is funny is he probably didn't need to go through all this trouble to get a team in the GTA under the GOJHL banner -- it sounds like Ladds really wants this to happen, he should have just applied for a new team.

I would be more understanding of the situation (towards Arsenault and the OHA) if the Owen Sound part of this team's hierarchy wasn't barred from discussing the future of the team at league meetings.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by RocketGirl »

When they took that year off to re-group and try to get their finances in order, is that when the Arsenault group came in?

Also, I noticed on their website that they successfully moved Vilanova to Orangeville. It's not a surprise to see them wanting to move OS as well. They'll probably try to move their other team as well.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

I do believe Arsenault came in as a sponsor upon their return from hiatus.

I'm not sure if the GMOHL would let him move Fergus, that is a very good market.

The Orangeville situation is beyond weird... but it is interesting how he is trying to hopscotch these franchises around like that... the original Flyers never should have taken a buyout from OJHL... but it was interesting to see how quickly Arsenault sprung into action when that market opened up. Especially considering the league would have allowed them to merge and double the team's assets player-wise.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by Slik27 »

ARSENAULT IS A SPONSOR & CAME FORWARD AS SUPPORTER OF GREYS HOCKEY IN OWEN SOUND. He has intentionally railroaded an entire community and has manipulated the circumstances (with the help of OHA President- Brent Ladds) The OHA clarified his intentions prior to the 2010 season as a sponsor & supporter only- Not as an owner!! But seeing how the OHA is handling this now, it appears there may have been a backdoor deal long before the drop of the puck.

The community didnt question Arsenaults intentions. Why would they? The Greys are a not-for-profit organization in Owen Sound. He came in as sponsor to help rebuild a storied history and was welcomed as a new part of the community. The mandate as per their constitution is also very clear- to promote Jr hockey within Owen Sound with no direct benefit to any Director. I would argue that moving the team & then selling it to himself, clearly shows a direct benefit!! As a Director & President of the Greys, there is a fiduciary duty to fulfil the "objects" of the corporation and obviously his clear intentions are not fulfilling those objects. HE NEEDS TO BE STOPPED! There is more to the story but Brent Ladds & Shawn McKelvie are going above & beyond to assist Arsenault by ensuring it remains unheard until it is too late.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by Just A Fan »

Come on....really? have you been to owen sound for a greys game? the 23 fans (although this year they did do better). they struggle to get players, they struggle financially. Their in a small community that also carries an OHL team. There isn't a lot of money to go around. I'm not saying moving a team to Brampton is the right thing to do because lets face it...GTA won't support the team either. However, unless somebody else steps up and foots the bill what choice do they have?
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

That is just the thing isn't it... they need solid Owen Sound ownership. They need someone (or some people) to step in and turn this boat around. They did it with the Attack/Platers... why not the Greys... a group of local businessmen could solve a lot of things here....
Slik27

Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by Slik27 »

23 fans is what the Brampton Capitals and the former Bramalea Blues averaged per game! Moving from one small market to a struggling non interested GTA market is ridiculous. The Greys only ran into financial trouble a few years ago when interest dropped off by the selected Volunteers to fundraise, then the fan base started to drop off with continuous losing seasons. Now there is a new core of people interested in putting in the work to see a Community Owned team succeed. As for players, the team never saw a mass departure at Christmas or the trade deadline as in years past. In fact, there were no player departures. They started the 2010 season with no returning players and now have a core of 17players that are willing to return and the fan base increased. I would say that is partial success. As for the financial part of it- again, it is a community run team that operates & relies on fundraising, sponsorships & gate fees to fund the team. Can it work? it did & does! Not all Jr teams are owned & are run the exact same way as the Greys. Had it not been for the debt from 2010, the team would not be in the hole right now. The volunteers worked and raised $15k over and above the past season expenses, they just didnt raise $35k over and above! Had things proceeded without this attempted highjacking, the team would more than likely be out of debt within 60days
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by RocketGirl »

From what you have all said, I'm beginning to see what happened. In Strathroy, we (uh oh, there's that word again) had this situation happen a few different times. We are a community owned, non-profit organization. For the first 8 or so years of the team, we had financial problems. On 2 different occasions, we had people try to buy the team. Because it's community owned, they couldn't buy it. So the arrangement was, we would continue as we normally would, and at the end of the season, whatever we were short, they would cover. Everyone thinks this is a fabulous arrangement, but the problem is, they feel they own the team, therefore they want more control. They want to be President, they want their people on the board, they want to be GM, they want control of everything because at the end of the day, it's their money being spent and they want to know where it's going.

Without being in the situation, I can tell you that's exactly what happened in Owen Sound. This Arsenault guy became the President and his people are on the board. As he has full control of the board, unfortunately, he's going to be able to move the team and it's going to happen. It really sucks and I hope you can do something to try and stop it from happening.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by richard »

It is a shame. Maybe there is another league like the GMHA that they can go in to keep the team going. I know of 2 other junior teams over the years one went from community owned to private ownership (St Thomas Stars - ask Dan Rose about that) and another private ownership was forced out by people in high places - had there dressing room (spent thousands on) taken away, practice taken away game night changed all by town council that made it impossible for this private ownership to continue.
It can get messy.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

So Ladds did eventually have a meeting with a representative of the Owen Sound side of the organization. He said that if the team is to stay in OS, they need to prove they are ready to handle $150k in expenses and to be "careful what you wish for."

He also made the suggestion that OS apply for a new Jr. B team under a concrete ownership group or apply for Jr. C... suggesting they do what Chippewa did and register in a smaller town (Like Shallow Lake) but basically play out of the major centre (Chippewa --> Niagara). By leaving OS's player's rights unprotected by registering in Shallow Lake, the other teams in the league might feel less threatened by their application to the league.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by RocketGirl »

I have heard via Twitter that it is expected to be announced today by the OHA that the Owen Sound Greys will be moving their operations to Brampton.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

Sadly, most of us folk from Grey County have been expecting this would happen. Luckily I work in Windsor... so I still have the Vipers to cheer on.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

OHA approved the move. Additionally, Arsenault also just gave Ladds a job running his new senior team out of Cambridge... conflict of interest?
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by RocketGirl »

This is on the Winter Hawks website.

GOJHL coming to the GTA

It seems there has been some chiseling going on in the Midwest conference.

While Brantford is at play in the Sutherland Cup, the Owen Sound Greys appear to be packing their bags and heading to the GTA.

Reported by the O.S. Times, the Greys’ major sponsor David Arsenault has applied to the league to move the team to Brampton for the 2012-2013 season. While Owen Sound’s community and former GM Steve McIver has appealed to the league to hold off on approving the move, Brent Ladds and the OHA approved the move into the GTA.

Check out the rest of the story below.


OHA approves Greys’ move to Brampton
Team leaving Owen Sound
By Bill Walker

The Owen Sound Greys are dead a year before their 100th birthday as the Ontario Hockey Association approved the junior-B club’s move to Brampton on Wednesday.

The OHA board of directors approved the Greys’ move to Brampton despite a formal request this morning by former general manager Steve McIver to have a decision delayed until its annual general meeting on June 16.

“It was too late for (major sponsor David Arsenault) to relocate and for ice and the league needed to know for the purposes of scheduling so the matter was dealt with,” OHA president Brent Ladds said following Wednesday’s meeting.

“(The Greater Ontario Junior Hockey League) was pressuring us to get it done by mid May because they do an interlocking schedule with all three conferences. They were looking for information last week but we said there would be no decision made until (Wednesday).”

McIver had asked that the decision be delayed until June to allow local interests to firm up local support.

“(It) would go a long way to providing a small window of relief for the community to shore up support and possibly keep the team in Owen Sound,” McIver said in an e-mail.

“(The community) deserves the opportunity to ensure all is being done to save the team and continue a solid and storied history of providing local players with the opportunity to play at a high level of hockey.”

But Ladds said that four more weeks wasn’t enough time for someone to put together a solid economic plan for the team.

“I recognize the good intentions there but at the end of the day it takes a firm plan and more visible support by the community,” said Ladds.

“If it just comes down to an individual simply putting in some money, we’ve seen that model doesn’t work because they’ll get tired of that after a year or two and we’ll be back in the same situation. It has to be a total community effort and you can’t put that together in four or five weeks.”

The Greys have been in financial troubles for several years, taking 2009-10 off to refinance.

Arsenault came onboard in 2010 as the major sponsor but the club continued to hemorrhage money.

He approached the OHA and the GOJHL earlier this year with an eye to moving the team to Brampton.

The OHA’s decision gives it a beachhead in the GTA and allows for junior-B hockey to expand into the area this year.

“I feel bad for the people in the Owen Sound area who had an interest in it but it’s an economic situation,” said Ladds, who did not remember if the vote to approve the move was unanimous.

“This is not a last year situation. This has been going on for six years. Long term there’s always an opportunity for someone to file an application for a new entry. Looking at the 2013-2014 season, maybe it will take that long to put together an economic model that works there.”
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

Any word on the Brampton team's name yet?
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by RocketGirl »

In similar news, the OHA approved Brantford's move to Caledonia tonight.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

At least Caledonia has a decent fanbase... not happy about it though... another traditional hockey market is gone...
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by Port hockey1 »

DMighton wrote:At least Caledonia has a decent fanbase... not happy about it though... another traditional hockey market is gone...
Where did the currant Brantford team come from?
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by TheGreatOne »

Port hockey1 wrote:
DMighton wrote:At least Caledonia has a decent fanbase... not happy about it though... another traditional hockey market is gone...
Where did the currant Brantford team come from?
Expansion.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by DMighton »

They applied originally for the "Toronto Conference"... when that got cancelled... they applied for the MW Conference instead.
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Re: Owen Sound Greys

Post by Port hockey1 »

TheGreatOne wrote:
Port hockey1 wrote:
DMighton wrote:At least Caledonia has a decent fanbase... not happy about it though... another traditional hockey market is gone...
Where did the currant Brantford team come from?
Expansion.
And TheGreatOne returns...Thanks for the answers guys. :)
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