Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

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Welland Cougars
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Welland Cougars »

Last time I checked the goaltender was still part of the team, so no, Caledonia was not the better team tonight.

A nice run of 6 straight penalties to start the game will lend itself to a fast start for Caledonia. If St. Catherines keeps that up, eventually they'll get burned.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cali vairs! »

Sorry but Savory still didn't do that much. To say that "if you think most of caledonia shots are coming from outside or are not threatening then your not watching the game close enough" then your watching a different game. No shots are coming from high percentage shooting areas. its that simple. Every single shot was in Savory's chest. Yes he made a nice glove stop on lindy in the second and a couple great scramble stops in front but that was also because he blew 4 or 5 pucks tonight and 2 in the first game. He has the easiest goaltending job in the league. Save shots that are coming from the top of the circle or farther. I talked to a ton of fans tonight from both sides and they agreed that Savory is a good goalie but he has not been tested at all. So you can make 45-50 shots a night but doesn't mean your the best (just ask Harvey).

- Now this sounds like I'm trying to tear apart Savory hear and know that I'm not. But at some point you must realize the obvious factor in why he has been "as good" as he has been. Yes he is a solid goalie but he doesn't have to make hard saves very often. Same thing as Joel last year. Very great goalie, but as soon as the defence breaks down and he has to have a great game you will see just how good he is (he was still very good but his weaknesses got exposed and he got picked apart). From watching Savory last year in Cambridge he wasn't very impressive and now he's all of a sudden the best goalie in the league? doesn't seem right. So overall, a great goalie, but if i need a huge game when my defence breaks down I'm going with a healthy Chanard over him based on the fact I have not seen him actually get tested.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by StCathFalcons »

Cali vairs! wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:53 am Sorry but Savory still didn't do that much. To say that "if you think most of caledonia shots are coming from outside or are not threatening then your not watching the game close enough" then your watching a different game. No shots are coming from high percentage shooting areas. its that simple. Every single shot was in Savory's chest. Yes he made a nice glove stop on lindy in the second and a couple great scramble stops in front but that was also because he blew 4 or 5 pucks tonight and 2 in the first game. He has the easiest goaltending job in the league. Save shots that are coming from the top of the circle or farther. I talked to a ton of fans tonight from both sides and they agreed that Savory is a good goalie but he has not been tested at all. So you can make 45-50 shots a night but doesn't mean your the best (just ask Harvey).

- Now this sounds like I'm trying to tear apart Savory hear and know that I'm not. But at some point you must realize the obvious factor in why he has been "as good" as he has been. Yes he is a solid goalie but he doesn't have to make hard saves very often. Same thing as Joel last year. Very great goalie, but as soon as the defence breaks down and he has to have a great game you will see just how good he is (he was still very good but his weaknesses got exposed and he got picked apart). From watching Savory last year in Cambridge he wasn't very impressive and now he's all of a sudden the best goalie in the league? doesn't seem right. So overall, a great goalie, but if i need a huge game when my defence breaks down I'm going with a healthy Chanard over him based on the fact I have not seen him actually get tested.
We can agree to disagree.

To suggest the Falcons have more 'real' scoring chances than the Corvairs, which in essence makes the Corvairs goalie better, is, well, ludicrous.

I was at the game. No comparison to goalies. (Now, I know the Vairs #1 isn't in net), but Savory's rebound control is lights out. The way he can direct the puck in to a corner. Change direction of the flow. Clear the puck. Oh, and stop it 105 times in two games (100 of them from the outside and at his stomach apparently). Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

We can't always agree on everything.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by GOJHLfan1 »

Caledonia does not have a true number 1. They have not had one since Furlong in my opinion. I know most of you are going to disagree and start an argument but both of them are nothing special this year. Sure you can try and say just look at the stats and I would just say look at the team in front of them. They do not get more then 20 shots a night there stats should be through the roof. Shoot the puck and your going to score.

If you try to argue the 20 shots thing well heres the averages

Chenard average of 21 shots a game
Van Schubert 18 a game
Savard 23 a game
Harvey 22 a game

and those are only the averages. What they get in the Buffalo games 4 a night?

Compared to other goalies in the league

Savory 27 a game
McCorriston 37 a game
Dentico 27 a game
Moore 27 a game

Did not count playoffs in those numbers just regular season
Last edited by GOJHLfan1 on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by StCathFalcons »

GOJHLfan1 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:20 am Caledonia does not have a true number 1. They have not had one since Furlong in my opinion. I know most of you are going to disagree and start an argument but both of them are nothing special this year. Sure you can try and say just look at the stats and I would just say look at the team in front of them. They do not get more then 20 shots a night there stats should be through the roof. Shoot the puck and your going to score.

If you try to argue the 20 shots thing well heres the averages

Chenard average of 21 shots a game
Van Schubert 18 a game
Savard 23 a game
Harvey 22 a game

and those are only the averages. What they get in the Buffalo games 4 a night?

Compared to other goalies in the league

Savory 27 a game
McCorriston 37 a game
Dentico 27 a game
Moore 27 a game
I started to twitch reading the name Furlong. lol I've never seen a goalie of his likes in Jr B, ever! I don't think we'll ever see another either.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by GOJHLfan1 »

StCathFalcons wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:07 am
GOJHLfan1 wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:20 am Caledonia does not have a true number 1. They have not had one since Furlong in my opinion. I know most of you are going to disagree and start an argument but both of them are nothing special this year. Sure you can try and say just look at the stats and I would just say look at the team in front of them. They do not get more then 20 shots a night there stats should be through the roof. Shoot the puck and your going to score.

If you try to argue the 20 shots thing well heres the averages

Chenard average of 21 shots a game
Van Schubert 18 a game
Savard 23 a game
Harvey 22 a game

and those are only the averages. What they get in the Buffalo games 4 a night?

Compared to other goalies in the league

Savory 27 a game
McCorriston 37 a game
Dentico 27 a game
Moore 27 a game
I started to twitch reading the name Furlong. lol I've never seen a goalie of his likes in Jr B, ever! I don't think we'll ever see another either.
Yep I cannot see it happening either.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cali vairs! »

StCathFalcons wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:36 am We can agree to disagree.

To suggest the Falcons have more 'real' scoring chances than the Corvairs, which in essence makes the Corvairs goalie better, is, well, ludicrous.

I was at the game. No comparison to goalies. (Now, I know the Vairs #1 isn't in net), but Savory's rebound control is lights out. The way he can direct the puck in to a corner. Change direction of the flow. Clear the puck. Oh, and stop it 105 times in two games (100 of them from the outside and at his stomach apparently). Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

We can't always agree on everything.
I agree with you. Can't always agree and I can almost bet u have seen savory more then I have. I am talking more about this series so far. A lot of the shots have been coming from far away and almost any goalie in the league can make. I'm just saying I have not seen him get tested enough but I still think he is a great goalie
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by BeenThereDoneThat »

Cali, not meaning to offend you but come on . You are either Chenard's mother or you have a dislike for Savory that is so strong that you can't make yourself give him credit for his outstanding play. In my opinion, the Falcons would be down 2-0 if it wasn't for his outstanding play so far in this series.
You complain that most of the Corvairs shots are straight at his chest. Did you ever stop to consider thats probably because he comes out and cuts the shooters angle and there is no where else for the shooter to go, You keep waiting for him to have a bad night so you can jump all over him. Just remember if that happens and he allows 5 or 6 goals, even Carey Price has nights where that happens to him. Good goalies do have nights where they just can't find their A game.
Getting back to Chenard whom I believe is also a great young goalie, is now the back up goalie for the Corvairs. I base this on facts, Van Schubert has started the last 5 games the Corvairs have played. Its obvious that Bullard has more confidence in him over Chenard. Chenard's back up role is NOT due to an injury.
Last night the Corvairs dominated the Falcons in periods 1 and 3 but were unable to bury them because of the play of Savory and the Falcons stellar defensive core.Still believing Corvairs in 6. .Sunday's game should be another thrilling contest between two outstanding well coached teams.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cali vairs! »

BeenThereDoneThat wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:04 pm Cali, not meaning to offend you but come on . You are either Chenard's mother or you have a dislike for Savory that is so strong that you can't make yourself give him credit for his outstanding play. In my opinion, the Falcons would be down 2-0 if it wasn't for his outstanding play so far in this series.
You complain that most of the Corvairs shots are straight at his chest. Did you ever stop to consider thats probably because he comes out and cuts the shooters angle and there is no where else for the shooter to go, You keep waiting for him to have a bad night so you can jump all over him. Just remember if that happens and he allows 5 or 6 goals, even Carey Price has nights where that happens to him. Good goalies do have nights where they just can't find their A game.
Getting back to Chenard whom I believe is also a great young goalie, is now the back up goalie for the Corvairs. I base this on facts, Van Schubert has started the last 5 games the Corvairs have played. Its obvious that Bullard has more confidence in him over Chenard. Chenard's back up role is NOT due to an injury.
Last night the Corvairs dominated the Falcons in periods 1 and 3 but were unable to bury them because of the play of Savory and the Falcons stellar defensive core.Still believing Corvairs in 6. .Sunday's game should be another thrilling contest between two outstanding well coached teams.
- First i said that he has not really been tested. Shots on goal don't matter if there how far out. Again, yes he has made the saves that he has needed too but come on they weren't that hard. i don't mind savoury at all but all I'm saying is to me he hasn't shown this "class of the GOJHL" caliber to me yet. This is because of the shots taken on him. And i said no shots from high percentage areas. So i don't get how if the shot is from the top of the circle he can come out and cut off the angle and give the player no where to go. i have asked a ton of people this question and all of them said exactly what i said. Remember i haven't seen him as much as you so I'm going off of the small amount I've seen likely 10 games).
- And Chenard was injured but he is feeling a lot better now. The reason that I have told that he hasn't started since eh went down was because they don't want to test it if they don't have too. i expect he will start tomorrow but I'm not sure.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Welland Cougars »

I'll ask again since it seems to have been burried. Anyone know what's going on with Savard if his OHL Sudbury Wolves get eliminated? Does he end up back in Caledonia?
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by StCathFalcons »

BeenThereDoneThat wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:04 pm Cali, not meaning to offend you but come on . You are either Chenard's mother or you have a dislike for Savory that is so strong that you can't make yourself give him credit for his outstanding play.
I agree with your above post BTDT. Not only is Cali disrespecting Savory, he's disrespecting the Corvairs and the quality of hockey they're playing.

If the goalies were in opposite ends last night, or the game before, Caledonia wins both games by 5 or 7 goals. Period.

I suspect, as Cali does, that Chenard will be in net tomorrow. He had been injured. And a smart move by Caledonia, why play Chenard if they didn't have to.

Now, I'd say they have to. We will see how it goes. Just hope if the Falcons happen to beat the Corvairs with Chenard in net, 'Cali' doesn't use the excuse he must still be hurt.

Either way, looking forward to tomorrow's game.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by RocketGirl »

Welland Cougars wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:04 pm I'll ask again since it seems to have been burried. Anyone know what's going on with Savard if his OHL Sudbury Wolves get eliminated? Does he end up back in Caledonia?

I don't believe he can. The Corvairs have a full roster of 23. If Savard returned, they'd have to release someone, and we're past the signing dates for this season. If he was still on their roster, I'd say he could, but he was removed on Jan 10 when Sudbury called him up.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Port hockey1 »

by StCathFalcons »

Late second period and third period, Falcons played stride for stride
That's good to hear. I'm hoping they can play them close all series. Makes the games that much better. Falcons D looked great earlier this season when I saw them. Good to hear how well their defense has continued to play. I wish I could make it to a game in this series, but St.Catharines & Caledonia is too far out of my way. :)
by Cali vairs! »

Sorry but Savory still didn't do that much.
C'mon man, 56 shots is still 56 shots. I'm not saying he's the same as the kid they had last year, who was a great goalie... But you can't ignore how steady he's been all season. You can have the best defense in the league, but it doesn't mean much if your goalie gives up soft goals. I'm sure you've seen a lot more of him then I have, so I'm not trying to disagree with your opinion, just saying he does deserve a lot of credit. I've seen team's with rock solid D's struggle to keep the puck out of their nets in the past. To the point where team's have brought in a kid mid-season to fix the problem.

I guess what I'm saying is the great defense does make his job a lot easier, but he still has to stop the shots. :)
by GOJHLfan1

Caledonia does not have a true number 1. They have not had one since Furlong in my opinion.
I thought Entmaa was a very good goalie. :)
by StCathFalcons

I started to twitch reading the name Furlong. lol I've never seen a goalie of his likes in Jr B, ever! I don't think we'll ever see another either.
That's a good debate. Best I've seen; Dave Shantz as a 15 year old in Thorold. 15 shutouts. :shock:
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cal 99ers »

Entmaa was a very good goalie,saw Sinclair when he played for Hamilton Redwings jr A.He was incredible when Hamilton was the worst team in the league.I spoke to people in Caledonia when they got him how he stood on his head stopping perfect tick tack toe plays 4 or 5 times a game thanks to Redwings defence last attitude. Have yet to see Caledonia even attempt a tick tack toe play in 1st 2 games.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cali vairs! »

Im not tying to say that he is a bad goalie at all. For sure he is one of the better goalies in the league or else st kitts wouldn't of signed him. But what I'm trying to say which is very hard without conveying the message that i think he is bad is that there are other factors that help bump up his numbers. No player in this league is a terrible player and when you have some of the best stats as a goalie in the league of course your a great goalie. But i just haven't seen him make high quality saves while i was there. not saying he's not capable of making those saves i just want to see him make some of them before i jump on the bandwagon. I totally respect him as a goalie and he is of course part of the reason the team is there.

- And I'm disrespecting the way the corsairs have been playing? No i would say I'm recognizing the way that the Falcons are playing. They have been playing as hard as they can and working the match ups well. They are making it hard for the corvairs to skate with the puck. And yes i believe that they have to play Chenard with the way the Falcons have been playing. Chenard has proved himself all year. Thats part of the reason he won the goalie of the month multiple times and he won the goalie of the year award. Him and savory have been having almost identical numbers all year and i believe that it will be a great game Sunday.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cal 99ers »

Since I do travel around the league and talk to people from LaSalle,listowel to Welland.They all say their division has the best goalie.Imo, Savory is the only goalie that iv'e seen that went from a poor performer in goal one year to the best goalie in the league the next.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cal 99ers »

I'm sorry, i missed adding that if he indeed is for real and the big stand out at the end of it all,mark yourself lucky, you got to witness his career change.Who knows, before this is over we could be watching this kid starting in Detroit some day soon.I personally believe Jensen is heading in that direction,and thanks to Caledonia and St Catharines people in the west and mid-west don't even know who he is.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by CC1 »

We can argue all day as to who is the best goalie in the league, but doesn't it comes down to who is the best goalie on any given night? Savory played an outstanding game on Friday and hope he plays as well tonight! This is a great series and could easily go 7.

Cali fans, what happened to Van Schubert? No one touched him when he went down and we thought he twisted or pulled something?
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by GOJHLfan1 »

Looks like the Falcons collapsed in the 3rd tonight
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Port hockey1 »

Falcons go into the 3rd with a 3-1 lead. Then Caledonia does what they do best, turn it up a notch in the 3rd, and fire in 5 straight goals. Don't know what the story is about this game. But it looks like Caledonia exploded in the 3rd period.

This is a hard loss for the Falcons to swallow. A two goal lead, and 20 minutes away from getting a huge series lead. Next game will be their most important game of the season. I expect the score to be closer than this one though.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cali vairs! »

score was not indicative of the game tonight. The Falcons in the first 2 periods gave it all they had. ButA in the third they did not look like the same team at all. A couple of there guys were banged up at the end of the second (Felker got hit hard and wasn't on the bench to start the third, Webb had a rough shift). Falcons D weren't as physical as they usually are and looked to be wearing down. All the goals in the third were basically tipped in except the first goal. Nothing Savory could do to help. Looked like in the third Bullard finally found the match ups st kitts were playing and started getting away from them. Helped a lot that the Polio line didn't touch the ice so Smilsky's line had to play against Cali's top lines.I wouldn't expect St Kitts to fall apart like this in another game at all. Tuesday should be a lot of fun.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cal 99ers »

3rd period didn't look any different than the 1st,except Caledonia shot for the corners and 5 hole instead of 13 shots to the chest in the 1st.Falcons played really good in the 2nd period.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by StCathFalcons »

Port hockey1 wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:01 pmThis is a hard loss for the Falcons to swallow. A two goal lead, and 20 minutes away from getting a huge series lead. Next game will be their most important game of the season. I expect the score to be closer than this one though.
Called Toronto Maple Leaf hockey! lol

I'm sure it's painful, but shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The way the Corvairs just continue to press hard. Was just a matter of time, I'd say.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by StCathFalcons »

Cal 99ers wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:23 am 3rd period didn't look any different than the 1st,except Caledonia shot for the corners and 5 hole instead of 13 shots to the chest in the 1st.Falcons played really good in the 2nd period.
There it is! The ol' chest shots. Glad Caledonia finally figured the sport out and stopped shooting at Savory's chest 53 times a game. :roll:
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cal 99ers »

I don't think you understand what cali vairs was originally trying to say.The Falcons defence is so good that even though there was constant pressure by Caledonia they didn't get the time to get a good shot off.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by BillyTheKid »

Cal 99ers wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:19 pm I don't think you understand what cali vairs was originally trying to say.The Falcons defence is so good that even though there was constant pressure by Caledonia they didn't get the time to get a good shot off.
2nd and 3rd goals were pretty soft in my opinion after the 2nd goal went in you new the flood gates were going to open though. Cali just keeps coming at you with all they got. When you can roll 4 lines like they can and when there 3rd and 4th lines are first lines on a lot of teams in the league then there going to be pretty hard to beat. St kitts is a very good hockey team and I think they can beat them but will have to play 3 more perfect games to beat them can't wait to watch more games
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by BeenThereDoneThat »

Everyone saw the game pretty much as I did, with a few exceptions. First period was pretty much even, second period belonged to the Falcons mainly because they executed better and controlled play in their own end. The third period was all Corvairs from start to finish. From my vantage point what happened in the third was pretty obvious. A Caledonia line that played far below par saw very little ice time in the third period while Johnston kept playing players that were the cause of at least 3 of the 5 third period goals. Bullard plays the guys that earn it while Johnston seems to hold no one accountable for poor play. Years ago that was never his style but it appears to be so now. None the less, the Corvairs were full value for their win and were rewarded for their effort throughout the game.
One other small thing, the Corvairs didn't start scoring in the third because they start shooting at the corners. Their last 4 goals were scored on deflections from guys getting to the right place at the right time. It's called team execution. I know some of you think I'm saying that because of what I think about Savory, well you're right.
Looking forward to Tuesday, (Corvairs in 6)
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by Cali vairs! »

BeenThereDoneThat wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:04 pm One other small thing, the Corvairs didn't start scoring in the third because they start shooting at the corners. Their last 4 goals were scored on deflections from guys getting to the right place at the right time. It's called team execution. I know some of you think I'm saying that because of what I think about Savory, well you're right.
Looking forward to Tuesday, (Corvairs in 6)
Your completely right. only 2 of the goals Savory really had a chance on. All of them were deletions. Not to start it all again but a lot of shots were at his chest. And Like Cal 99ers said I'm just trying to say how good the St kitts D is. But Savory made a great save on Craievich when he was alone in the slot in the first and made a couple nice saves in the second.

Anybody else notice how often Savory's net comes off once there is a close play in front. Ive seen copps give it a little help going off a couple times and a few others. Now the nets in Caledonia come off easy but it doesn't seem like Shubey is having that much trouble keeping it on. Just want to see if anybody else has noticed this.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by BeenThereDoneThat »

Yes I did. I think all good goalies will use whatever tools they have in their toolboxes to prevent the other team from scoring. It only works when you get away with it. The referees will take note if it happens too often in a game or if the referee is doing a second game in a series, he'll be watching. On a another note, I thought the referees did a pretty good job last night.
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Re: Finals; Caledonia vs St.Catharines

Post by BillyTheKid »

Cali vairs! wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:42 pm
BeenThereDoneThat wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:04 pm One other small thing, the Corvairs didn't start scoring in the third because they start shooting at the corners. Their last 4 goals were scored on deflections from guys getting to the right place at the right time. It's called team execution. I know some of you think I'm saying that because of what I think about Savory, well you're right.
Looking forward to Tuesday, (Corvairs in 6)
Your completely right. only 2 of the goals Savory really had a chance on. All of them were deletions. Not to start it all again but a lot of shots were at his chest. And Like Cal 99ers said I'm just trying to say how good the St kitts D is. But Savory made a great save on Craievich when he was alone in the slot in the first and made a couple nice saves in the second.

Anybody else notice how often Savory's net comes off once there is a close play in front. Ive seen copps give it a little help going off a couple times and a few others. Now the nets in Caledonia come off easy but it doesn't seem like Shubey is having that much trouble keeping it on. Just want to see if anybody else has noticed this.
Maybe the shots are at his chest bc his angles are good and he's in good position. Just a thought ?
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