Too much or just too good

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Too much or just too good

Post by Caledonia Fan »

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Port hockey1
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

By the end of the ugly 18-0 blowout in last season's playoffs, the owner of the losing team was hot. Scorching actually. Completely livid that a team would run up the score on an obviously overmatched opponent.

So you can imagine how that owner was feeling after the same team pounded his guys 17-1 on the weekend — outshooting them 103-14 — in a regular-season game that was essentially meaningless since the winning team had already clinched first place "I think the feelings are exactly the same," says Tim Toffolo, owner of the Jr. B Pelham Panthers.

Meanwhile, the general manager of the winning Caledonia Corvairs says it's not his fault that he's built a two-time defending championship team that may be even more dominant this season. As opposed to his opponent's "disastrous program."

"I'm tired of hearing his crap," Brian Rizzetto says.
Well said Mr. Rizzetto. Someone needs to tell Mr. Toffolo that his team shouldn't even be allowed to be in the league. When's the last time Pelham surrendered less than 5 goals? How many times have they surrendered 10 goals this season?

Yes Tim, this is frustrating. Frustrating that you're allowed to ice a team that would lose to most Jr.C teams. It isn't up to every other team to baby your pathetic joke of a team. The onus is on you to put a group of kids together that can compete in this league.

I'll be posting some Pelham stats soon. Stats that show's how many times they've been out shot this season, how many times they've surrendered 10 or more goals in a game, etc.


Mr. Toffolo, give it up. Everyone knows you're the problem here. Just fold your peewee team and save the GOJHL some embarrassment!!!! :smt006
Last edited by Port hockey1 on Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

Last Saturday, the host Corvairs had 34 shots in the first period. Even so, they were only ahead 2-0 at the horn thanks to some terrific work by Pelham goalie, Stephen Harvey. The wheels fell off for the visitors in the second when the Corvairs fired another 37 shots on net and scored 10 times.

But here's where Toffolo gets cranky. With the game thoroughly in hand, Caledonia came out for the third period and continued to pour it on, scoring five more times. On 32 more shots.

"Geez, they celebrated after every goal," he says. "They celebrated after the 17th goal."

He says the refusal to show a little mercy showed a lack of respect for the game and for an opponent. Especially one that had two guys out with injuries, two more suspended and four with the flu. Though that was only the beginning of the challenge.

He says his team is in Year 2 of a complete rebuild.
OMG, Tim, they were using defensemen at forward. Their team doesn't have any bottom players, they're a deep team.

A complete rebuild??? Oh brother, don't make me puke! :smt078

The OHA needs to step in and put a stop to this. Rebuild??? You need to get players to return for another season to call it a rebuild!!!

That's hilarious, thanks for the laughs Tim! :lol: :lol: 8) :roll:
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

So, pounding them was terrible sportsmanship on the part of Caledonia, right?

Not so fast, Rizzetto says.

He explains that his side rolled all four of its lines and played its backup goalie. Sure, the shot totals were crazy but a number of them came from the blue line or outside. Yes, the players celebrated goals long after the game was out of hand but that's because two of them were scored by a popular teammate who hadn't got one all year.

More than any of that, though, there's a bigger issue at play, he says. Many of his players are gunning for scholarships or even pro contracts. They have to impress every shift, regardless of the competition. His franchise has become consistently great by recruiting well and then religiously adhering to a mantra that you play hard for 60 minutes, even if you're playing a team he calls "an embarrassment to the league."

"We're not changing that for Tim Toffolo," he says.
And that quote nailed it! Couldn't have said it any better. Pelham hasn't won 10 games in a season since the 2012-2013 season. A rebuild... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Amazingly, the feelings between the two sides could actually get even more raw in the weeks ahead. Every team in the league makes the playoffs which means these two outfits are destined to face each other in the first round where goal-differential matters. Meaning a contender like Caledonia has every reason to score every time it can, no matter how lopsided the games get.

So this could happen again?

"Very possible," Toffolo says.

Actually, it's more than possible. Bank on it, Rizzetto says.

"We're going to dump everything we have at them, every game."
Good to read. I hope they score 20 goals in all four games! Bring some attention to the situation in Pelham.
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goalie34
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by goalie34 »

Tim T. apologizes for not having reserve cigarettes to bankroll a Jr B hockey team, hope all accept his apology.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

Click here for Game Live
GOJHL 2015/2016 Final
Niagara Falls 2
Caledonia 1
game live | boxscore | gamesheet | pre game
read game recap
Another example of a properly run organization being able to compete, and defeat Caledonia. 8)
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by three dog night »

Do not wake up the opposition I see the Panthers gave Ancaster fits tonight and where was the Caledonia offense tonight.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

three dog night wrote:Do not wake up the opposition I see the Panthers gave Ancaster fits tonight and where was the Caledonia offense tonight.

To me it looks like Ancaster heavily outshot them and scored 8 goals. I guess their backup goalie had a rough night. I'd love to see that group win some games, it sucks to lose like that.

But the talent just isn't there. Maybe 4 players that would make other Jr.B teams...5 tops. That's not counting the goalies. They should be very proud. They've played their hearts out this season. It's a shame that they ended up with that team.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Beehive »

I can understand the opinions from both sides. First you have Pelham which is providing young men an opportunity to play Junior B hockey and be part of a team but for whatever reason are unable to find the horses to compete. I am not sure of Mr. Toffolo's situation on this only that I feel for the players that get embarrassed game after game.
Then on the other hand you have the fiscally endowed Corvairs who are the class of the league if not the entire B system. From my vantage point this is clearly a non-level playing field (or sheet of ice) for the other clubs who are trying to compete with Caledonia. However it is one thing to ice a team of talented players but it is another to get them to function as an efficient group so consistently which is what the management and coaching staff of the Corvairs has done in spades. This has made them very successful indeed and on the road to a third consecutive Sutherland Cup and I know that their owners love hockey and are there for their players.
Of course there is a certain amount of jealousy involved as these other clubs cannot provide the assets that are put forward in order to compete with Caledonia and in some instances their followers lash out at the success enjoyed by the Corvairs on this forum.
I have read many posts slamming Caledonia's quest for the Suthy but it also bothers me to hear some comments from Corvair fans telling others to deal with it or get over it which is easy to do coming from the cat bird's seat. Just remember..... the only thing worse than a sore loser is a bad winner. Let's just enjoy what I think will turn out to be a very competitive post season and the best of luck to all participants.....and let's keep the comments constructive!
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by ILuvHackey »

As I've said before, Caledonia is winning within the rules. However, IMO, the rules should change.

Look at the BCHL. Basically, it's the shining light of Canadian junior hockey that isn't major junior. The best place for prospective NCAA Canadians to play. Who would be the perennial team out there? Penticton Vees, correct?

Other than Conway (played in NCAA last season) and Brodeur (played int he Q last season), their best players are guys who come into the system early, and they move them on.

This year they have:

Tyson Jost (98) - 104 P in 48 GP - Captain - UND Commit
Dante Fabbro (98) - 67 P in 45 GP - Alt. Captain - BC Commit
Brodzinski (96) - 66 P in 55 GP - Played USHS last season - St. Cloud NCAA Commit
Zach Driscoll (97) - 26 GP .933SV% 1.90 GAA - came from NAHL/USHL - St. Cloud NCAA Commit

For all the GOJHL's moaning about wanting to be Jr. A because the OJ poaches via the A/B transfer agreement, they need to move more towards moving guys onto NCAA D1 and D3 just like the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL, etc. does. Become a better league, by focusing on young players and their development. Become a legitimate place for players who aren't major junior types to develop and get scholarships.

Just my opinion, and why I hope Caledonia gets away from loading up on OHL'ers and 20 year olds at their end of their career.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

Beehive wrote:I can understand the opinions from both sides. First you have Pelham which is providing young men an opportunity to play Junior B hockey and be part of a team but for whatever reason are unable to find the horses to compete. I am not sure of Mr. Toffolo's situation on this only that I feel for the players that get embarrassed game after game.
Then on the other hand you have the fiscally endowed Corvairs who are the class of the league if not the entire B system. From my vantage point this is clearly a non-level playing field (or sheet of ice) for the other clubs who are trying to compete with Caledonia. However it is one thing to ice a team of talented players but it is another to get them to function as an efficient group so consistently which is what the management and coaching staff of the Corvairs has done in spades. This has made them very successful indeed and on the road to a third consecutive Sutherland Cup and I know that their owners love hockey and are there for their players.
Of course there is a certain amount of jealousy involved as these other clubs cannot provide the assets that are put forward in order to compete with Caledonia and in some instances their followers lash out at the success enjoyed by the Corvairs on this forum.
I have read many posts slamming Caledonia's quest for the Suthy but it also bothers me to hear some comments from Corvair fans telling others to deal with it or get over it which is easy to do coming from the cat bird's seat. Just remember..... the only thing worse than a sore loser is a bad winner. Let's just enjoy what I think will turn out to be a very competitive post season and the best of luck to all participants.....and let's keep the comments constructive!
The playing field is level. The only team that can't even compete with Caledonia is Pelham. Niagara Falls, Fort Erie, & St.Catharines have all defeated Caledonia this season. Thorold & Welland even played close games against them.

Pelham's owner has no business setting these kids up to fail. Thorold scored 15 goals on them a week ago. Pelham needs to go.

And Caledonia fans have every right to tell people to deal with it. Other fan bases had to deal with Niagara Falls, Thorold, & St.Catharines dynasty's in the past.

And Caledonia isn't even as deep and good as one of those Niagara Falls & Thorold teams were.


It's Caledonia's turn, the kids on that team have feelings just like the kids on the other teams. They have nothing to be upset about. As you said, anyone can put a bunch of talent together, it takes a great coach & chemistry to get the results at the end of the day.

Cheers! :)
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

ILuvHackey wrote:As I've said before, Caledonia is winning within the rules. However, IMO, the rules should change.

Look at the BCHL. Basically, it's the shining light of Canadian junior hockey that isn't major junior. The best place for prospective NCAA Canadians to play. Who would be the perennial team out there? Penticton Vees, correct?

Other than Conway (played in NCAA last season) and Brodeur (played int he Q last season), their best players are guys who come into the system early, and they move them on.

This year they have:

Tyson Jost (98) - 104 P in 48 GP - Captain - UND Commit
Dante Fabbro (98) - 67 P in 45 GP - Alt. Captain - BC Commit
Brodzinski (96) - 66 P in 55 GP - Played USHS last season - St. Cloud NCAA Commit
Zach Driscoll (97) - 26 GP .933SV% 1.90 GAA - came from NAHL/USHL - St. Cloud NCAA Commit

For all the GOJHL's moaning about wanting to be Jr. A because the OJ poaches via the A/B transfer agreement, they need to move more towards moving guys onto NCAA D1 and D3 just like the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL, etc. does. Become a better league, by focusing on young players and their development. Become a legitimate place for players who aren't major junior types to develop and get scholarships.

Just my opinion, and why I hope Caledonia gets away from loading up on OHL'ers and 20 year olds at their end of their career.
Ever looked at the records of the top OJHL teams? If Caledonia causes a stir, what would GOJHL fans say about Trenton, Aurora, Wellington, Buffalo, etc?

They've all made habits of having teams that rarely lose a regular season game... :smt002
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Beehive »

When referring to a level playing field I am talking about a playoff series - not any given night situation. All things being equal (which they are not!) any top team can suffer defeat by any opponent if all the ducks are in a row. I do not think that formula would work against the Corvairs in a seven game series as they are just too deep. As for the Canucks, Blackhawks and Falcon so-called dynasties...how many Sutherlands did they actually win? I believe that Thorold was probably the best of the three.
Niagara Falls was notorious for loading up on 20 year olds but did not have as much success for long playoff runs as they hoped.
If memory serves me correctly the Midwest division which contained Brantford (the new Caledonia) was the division to beat at that time and won most of the cups. There are many stories on this topic that I could share on here but not everyone would be interested which I respect.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Beehive »

ILuvHackey wrote:As I've said before, Caledonia is winning within the rules. However, IMO, the rules should change.

Look at the BCHL. Basically, it's the shining light of Canadian junior hockey that isn't major junior. The best place for prospective NCAA Canadians to play. Who would be the perennial team out there? Penticton Vees, correct?

Other than Conway (played in NCAA last season) and Brodeur (played int he Q last season), their best players are guys who come into the system early, and they move them on.

This year they have:

Tyson Jost (98) - 104 P in 48 GP - Captain - UND Commit
Dante Fabbro (98) - 67 P in 45 GP - Alt. Captain - BC Commit
Brodzinski (96) - 66 P in 55 GP - Played USHS last season - St. Cloud NCAA Commit
Zach Driscoll (97) - 26 GP .933SV% 1.90 GAA - came from NAHL/USHL - St. Cloud NCAA Commit

For all the GOJHL's moaning about wanting to be Jr. A because the OJ poaches via the A/B transfer agreement, they need to move more towards moving guys onto NCAA D1 and D3 just like the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL, etc. does. Become a better league, by focusing on young players and their development. Become a legitimate place for players who aren't major junior types to develop and get scholarships.

Just my opinion, and why I hope Caledonia gets away from loading up on OHL'ers and 20 year olds at their end of their career.
An even better way would be for our Canadian universities to offer full-ride sports scholarships to our kids and keep them home but this would never happen as they could not compete with the U.S. financially. Could you imagine a 15 or 16 year old blue chip prospect receiving an offer from Alberta Golden Bears or New Brunswick Reds. How awesome would that be?
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by ILuvHackey »

Port hockey1 wrote:Ever looked at the records of the top OJHL teams? If Caledonia causes a stir, what would GOJHL fans say about Trenton, Aurora, Wellington, Buffalo, etc?

They've all made habits of having teams that rarely lose a regular season game... :smt002
I don't have an issue with large winning ratios -- I have a problem with loading up on has-been OHL'ers at the end of their career, rather than focusing on developing 16-18 year olds for school opportunities and still winning.

Teams that have great young talent with the odd 20 year old to fill in as a mentor, is what this league should be moving to.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by ILuvHackey »

Beehive wrote:An even better way would be for our Canadian universities to offer full-ride sports scholarships to our kids and keep them home but this would never happen as they could not compete with the U.S. financially. Could you imagine a 15 or 16 year old blue chip prospect receiving an offer from Alberta Golden Bears or New Brunswick Reds. How awesome would that be?
100% CIS should also look to better itself too.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Qwerty »

Quote taken from recent story published in Cambridge Times: GOJHL may restrict number of 20-year-old players

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/sports-sto ... d-players/

"The Caledonia Corvairs of the Golden Horseshoe Conference came under fire this season by GOJHL fans on social media for signing 16, 20-year-olds to their 23-player roster, some with varying degrees of Ontario Hockey League experience. While that isn’t against GOJHL rules, the league is considered a development loop for the Canadian Hockey League (CHL), the Ontario Junior A Hockey League, and U.S. and Canadian universities, and signing 20 year olds doesn’t mesh with that aim."

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, Caledonia... it tolls for thee.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

Qwerty wrote:Quote taken from recent story published in Cambridge Times: GOJHL may restrict number of 20-year-old players

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/sports-sto ... d-players/

"The Caledonia Corvairs of the Golden Horseshoe Conference came under fire this season by GOJHL fans on social media for signing 16, 20-year-olds to their 23-player roster, some with varying degrees of Ontario Hockey League experience. While that isn’t against GOJHL rules, the league is considered a development loop for the Canadian Hockey League (CHL), the Ontario Junior A Hockey League, and U.S. and Canadian universities, and signing 20 year olds doesn’t mesh with that aim."

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, Caledonia... it tolls for thee.
I'm pretty sure most of these 20 year olds are playing for scholarships... So that would fit into the development aspect of this league.

Thanks for sharing the article. It was a good read. I hope the league's careful as to how they word any future new rules. :)
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Qwerty »

So, Port, are you suggesting that Caledonia is offering their CHL veteran players scholarships? To NCAA teams, or to CIS teams? I'm confused by your speculation because I thought that as soon as a player plays a single game in the CHL, they become ineligible to play NCAA hockey. And as CHL graduates, they should already have scholarships offered through their CHL team, right? Am I wrong on this? Otherwise your theory doesn't add up. These guys can't play in the US, and they should already have scholarships to play in Canada -- so scholarships would not be an incentive for CHLers to drop back to JR. B.
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Re: Too much or just too good

Post by Port hockey1 »

Qwerty wrote:So, Port, are you suggesting that Caledonia is offering their CHL veteran players scholarships? To NCAA teams, or to CIS teams? I'm confused by your speculation because I thought that as soon as a player plays a single game in the CHL, they become ineligible to play NCAA hockey. And as CHL graduates, they should already have scholarships offered through their CHL team, right? Am I wrong on this? Otherwise your theory doesn't add up. These guys can't play in the US, and they should already have scholarships to play in Canada -- so scholarships would not be an incentive for CHLers to drop back to JR. B.
I've been told that many of their 20 year olds are being watched by scouts. They're hoping to make it to the next level. Some through schooling, others through other levels of hockey.

I don't know the specific rules. Just what I've been hearing and reading.
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