2018/2019 Schedule

Hockey Talk

Moderators: Blades, RocketGirl

oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:50 pm

Letterkenny68 wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:28 pm
Your need to use better terminology there oldtymer. Pelham has NOT opted out of the league. They have only opted out of the Inc organization.
They opted out of the GOJHL . The showcase is run by the GOJHL and from what I understand they were allowed to play in it if they paid a fee. Welland, NF and Welland paid and are in. The other teams opted out, did not pay or whatever terminology you want to use. I believe that the ball was in Pelham's court to pay for either the league or the tournament and they chose not to. It is their decision to make and they made it.




oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:55 pm

RagingBS wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:53 pm
zantimisfit wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:07 am
Here's an update on the schedule situation. Apparently, they have two completed schedules ready to go depending on the final decision.

http://www.bpsportsniagara.ca/falcons-may-fly-away/
Why would the OHF entertain the idea of
forcing a league realignment that increases travel expenses for almost every team? How does Inc proposed to pay for these extra expenses? Just collect more from the players?

Assuming Incs realignment scheme fails and the showcase games were to count in the standings as Clairmont proposes, how would the final standings be calculated with teams playing varying amounts of games? Winning percentage instead of points? Should Inc get it's way how many of the 15 teams would make playoffs under Inc preferred plan? 8 Inc teams and 8 on the other side looks like the most logical way although I can see some owners and players not liking the 47% probability that an Inc team misses post season compared to 20% probability for Inc free teams.
It appears that they are willing to accept that risk. With not having Pelham, and Fort Erie in their league, St Catharines will now incur significant travel costs and will now play in a much tougher division. It appears based on the article on BP site that they are willing to take the chance.

BeenThereDoneThat
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:31 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by BeenThereDoneThat » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:30 pm

RagingBS,

You mention that the players with 2 leagues now to choose from will go to where they see the best opportunities for themselves. I agree with that statement. Now look at the make up of the 15 GOJHL.Inc teams and compare it to the make up of the 10 GOJHL teams and tell me where you honestly believe the players would receive the best exposure. The 15 team league is made up of mostly well established teams that have a history or treating their players and communities with respect. Unfortunately the same can't be said about the 10 team division. Most of those and not all have a reputation that leaves a lot to be desired.
I said it once and I'll say it one more time, get rid of the teams that didn't pay last year, give the other 7 an opportunity to pony up now and move on.

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:41 pm

oldtymer wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:50 pm
Letterkenny68 wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:28 pm
Your need to use better terminology there oldtymer. Pelham has NOT opted out of the league. They have only opted out of the Inc organization.
They opted out of the GOJHL . The showcase is run by the GOJHL and from what I understand they were allowed to play in it if they paid a fee. Welland, NF and Welland paid and are in. The other teams opted out, did not pay or whatever terminology you want to use. I believe that the ball was in Pelham's court to pay for either the league or the tournament and they chose not to. It is their decision to make and they made it.
The 10 teams opted out of GOJHL INC. GOJHL INC has tried to remove them from the GOJHL by saying they would refuse to schedule games with those 10 teams. The OHA has ruled that membership in GOJHL INC is not a requirement to be a member of the GOJHL. In other words GOJHL INC does not dictate membership in the league. The OHA has allowed the league partners to run showcase that lately has been managed and administered by GOJHL INC. With one side refusing to schedule with the other the showcase would have seen significantly smaller so GOJHL INC agreed to schedule games for the showcase with the other GOJHL teams if they paid a tournament fee. Some local teams obliged others declined for their own reasons.

The key point to remember is that for the 2018-19 season the GOJHL will have 25 member teams whether GOJHL INC likes it or not

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:08 pm

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:30 pm
RagingBS,

You mention that the players with 2 leagues now to choose from will go to where they see the best opportunities for themselves. I agree with that statement. Now look at the make up of the 15 GOJHL.Inc teams and compare it to the make up of the 10 GOJHL teams and tell me where you honestly believe the players would receive the best exposure. The 15 team league is made up of mostly well established teams that have a history or treating their players and communities with respect. Unfortunately the same can't be said about the 10 team division. Most of those and not all have a reputation that leaves a lot to be desired.
I said it once and I'll say it one more time, get rid of the teams that didn't pay last year, give the other 7 an opportunity to pony up now and move on.
The name calling needs to stop if anyone has dreams that 7 of the 10 will suddenly " pony up and move on". As far as treating players and communities well teams are guilty of not doing that very well on both sides. As far as scouting goes the Golden Horseshoe will still get more scouts because the Toronto scouts just get on the QEW to see games even though the Midwest has always been the best division.

BeenThereDoneThat
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:31 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by BeenThereDoneThat » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:19 pm

If that statement is true that you make about scouting, why is over the last 5 consecutive years the West and Mid West have received more scholarships than the Horseshoe. Don't believe it, go check it out like i did.

User avatar
Port hockey1
Posts: 2596
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Maroon's

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by Port hockey1 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:50 pm

The Howard Stern Of The GOJHL. Those who like my posts: Wan't to see what I'm going to say next, Those who dislike my posts: Wan't to see what I'm going to say next. :smt033 :smt029 :smt083 :smt102

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:37 pm

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:19 pm
If that statement is true that you make about scouting, why is over the last 5 consecutive years the West and Mid West have received more scholarships than the Horseshoe. Don't believe it, go check it out like i did.
Commitment and Scholarship aren't the same thing. If your research is limited to the GOJHL site, numerous D1 commitments are players who were in the GOJHL, but moved on to places like the BCHL where they were scouted and actually received the commitment listed on the GOJHL site.

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:29 pm

It appears the showcase has been added to the preseason schedule. Regular Season still TBA.

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:42 pm

Finally, the GOJHL has posted the regular season schedule. To no ones surprise, it looks similar to every other year except the showcase games are now just part of the preseason schedule as they always should have been. League now starts Sept 10th in Hamilton. Looks like league is now a 48 game schedule instead of 50.

oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:55 pm

RagingBS wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:41 pm
oldtymer wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:50 pm
Letterkenny68 wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:28 pm
Your need to use better terminology there oldtymer. Pelham has NOT opted out of the league. They have only opted out of the Inc organization.
They opted out of the GOJHL . The showcase is run by the GOJHL and from what I understand they were allowed to play in it if they paid a fee. Welland, NF and Welland paid and are in. The other teams opted out, did not pay or whatever terminology you want to use. I believe that the ball was in Pelham's court to pay for either the league or the tournament and they chose not to. It is their decision to make and they made it.
The 10 teams opted out of GOJHL INC. GOJHL INC has tried to remove them from the GOJHL by saying they would refuse to schedule games with those 10 teams. The OHA has ruled that membership in GOJHL INC is not a requirement to be a member of the GOJHL. In other words GOJHL INC does not dictate membership in the league. The OHA has allowed the league partners to run showcase that lately has been managed and administered by GOJHL INC. With one side refusing to schedule with the other the showcase would have seen significantly smaller so GOJHL INC agreed to schedule games for the showcase with the other GOJHL teams if they paid a tournament fee. Some local teams obliged others declined for their own reasons.

The key point to remember is that for the 2018-19 season the GOJHL will have 25 member teams whether GOJHL INC likes it or not
So the GOJHL is good and the GOJHL Inc. is bad. Interesting . Here is my take on what is happening .. The teams that are not with the Inc want all of the benefit of the league but don't want to pay the GOJHL fees. They for the most part are the teams that have or want to charge their players pretty hefty fees to play. In the end it is a business decision but the non-Inc teams need the Inc teams so as to entice the players to pay the fees. It is going to be very hard to attract these paying players when they only get to play the non-Inc teams such as Buffalo or Pelham. These teams also need to have a league rule put into place to ensure that all teams charge these higher fees so they have a chance of attracting the better players. All this talk about the number of scouts watching the Shoe games is simply a selling ploy to again get the kids to pay the higher fees. Again , can't see a lot of scouts coming out to watch the Pelham /Buffalo game. In the end this fuss is all about the mighty buck. Based on the Inc's decision, it shows who needs who more.

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:17 pm

The divisions are the same, nothing has changed except the crossover games don't count. St Catherines is still in the Shoe, London is still in the West. The OHA had already ruled that Inc cant create their own loop and exclude the other members. Also note it is GOJHL Inc that charges the $750 per head fee. Maybe these teams have made a business decision as well come to the conclusion that they can attract and retain more of the talented players based on lowering or eliminating fees. Like it or not there are limits to what players will pay especially when their parents aren't footing the bill any longer. For the 19 or 20 year old player the so called benefits are limited.

RocketGirl
Posts: 3006
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:34 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RocketGirl » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:39 pm

There is no $750 player assessment fee anymore. It is a $7500 team assessment fee. If the teams put it on their players, it's $325 each.
Queen of the GOJHL

Sometimes you just have to straighten your crown and remind them who they're dealing with.

oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:44 pm

RagingBS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:17 pm
The divisions are the same, nothing has changed except the crossover games don't count. St Catherines is still in the Shoe, London is still in the West. The OHA had already ruled that Inc cant create their own loop and exclude the other members. Also note it is GOJHL Inc that charges the $750 per head fee. Maybe these teams have made a business decision as well come to the conclusion that they can attract and retain more of the talented players based on lowering or eliminating fees. Like it or not there are limits to what players will pay especially when their parents aren't footing the bill any longer. For the 19 or 20 year old player the so called benefits are limited.
I don't buy the argument that this is all about the players. I will call BS on that. It is funny that Hamilton is part of the non-Inc teams but they were the only ones to admit they charged 3500 / player last year. As the owner said Hockey is expensive.

outside looking in
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:50 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by outside looking in » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:48 pm

RagingBS wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:41 pm
oldtymer wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:50 pm
Letterkenny68 wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:28 pm
Your need to use better terminology there oldtymer. Pelham has NOT opted out of the league. They have only opted out of the Inc organization.
They opted out of the GOJHL . The showcase is run by the GOJHL and from what I understand they were allowed to play in it if they paid a fee. Welland, NF and Welland paid and are in. The other teams opted out, did not pay or whatever terminology you want to use. I believe that the ball was in Pelham's court to pay for either the league or the tournament and they chose not to. It is their decision to make and they made it.
The 10 teams opted out of GOJHL INC. GOJHL INC has tried to remove them from the GOJHL by saying they would refuse to schedule games with those 10 teams. The OHA has ruled that membership in GOJHL INC is not a requirement to be a member of the GOJHL. In other words GOJHL INC does not dictate membership in the league. The OHA has allowed the league partners to run showcase that lately has been managed and administered by GOJHL INC. With one side refusing to schedule with the other the showcase would have seen significantly smaller so GOJHL INC agreed to schedule games for the showcase with the other GOJHL teams if they paid a tournament fee. Some local teams obliged others declined for their own reasons.

The key point to remember is that for the 2018-19 season the GOJHL will have 25 member teams whether GOJHL INC likes it or not
OK.... Hate to do this but after reading everything in this forum, I am still not sure which teams belong to GOJHL and the GOJHL Inc. Could somebody please put a list together as to who is sided with who? Is it the Shoe and a few others Inc. or Gojhl?
I'm confused

GOJHLfan1
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:02 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by GOJHLfan1 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:47 pm

outside looking in wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:48 pm
RagingBS wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:41 pm
oldtymer wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:50 pm


They opted out of the GOJHL . The showcase is run by the GOJHL and from what I understand they were allowed to play in it if they paid a fee. Welland, NF and Welland paid and are in. The other teams opted out, did not pay or whatever terminology you want to use. I believe that the ball was in Pelham's court to pay for either the league or the tournament and they chose not to. It is their decision to make and they made it.
The 10 teams opted out of GOJHL INC. GOJHL INC has tried to remove them from the GOJHL by saying they would refuse to schedule games with those 10 teams. The OHA has ruled that membership in GOJHL INC is not a requirement to be a member of the GOJHL. In other words GOJHL INC does not dictate membership in the league. The OHA has allowed the league partners to run showcase that lately has been managed and administered by GOJHL INC. With one side refusing to schedule with the other the showcase would have seen significantly smaller so GOJHL INC agreed to schedule games for the showcase with the other GOJHL teams if they paid a tournament fee. Some local teams obliged others declined for their own reasons.

The key point to remember is that for the 2018-19 season the GOJHL will have 25 member teams whether GOJHL INC likes it or not
OK.... Hate to do this but after reading everything in this forum, I am still not sure which teams belong to GOJHL and the GOJHL Inc. Could somebody please put a list together as to who is sided with who? Is it the Shoe and a few others Inc. or Gojhl?
I'm confused
St Catharines is the only team from the Golden Horseshoe part of the Inc I know that one

Marcie
Posts: 459
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:25 am
Location: Strathroy

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by Marcie » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:16 pm

The entire West is Inc except London. The entire MidWest is Inc except Brantford and Brampton. Just St. Catharines from the Shoe is Inc.

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:35 pm

oldtymer wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:44 pm
RagingBS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:17 pm
The divisions are the same, nothing has changed except the crossover games don't count. St Catherines is still in the Shoe, London is still in the West. The OHA had already ruled that Inc cant create their own loop and exclude the other members. Also note it is GOJHL Inc that charges the $750 per head fee. Maybe these teams have made a business decision as well come to the conclusion that they can attract and retain more of the talented players based on lowering or eliminating fees. Like it or not there are limits to what players will pay especially when their parents aren't footing the bill any longer. For the 19 or 20 year old player the so called benefits are limited.
I don't buy the argument that this is all about the players. I will call BS on that. It is funny that Hamilton is part of the non-Inc teams but they were the only ones to admit they charged 3500 / player last year. As the owner said Hockey is expensive.
He charged the maximum amount allowed and has since moved from Ancaster to Hamilton and doesn't have many returning players. You can believe being known as one of the most expensive places in Ontario to play has no affect if you want but I think the turnover speaks volumes.

Marcie
Posts: 459
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:25 am
Location: Strathroy

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by Marcie » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:47 pm


RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:42 pm

League opener is 2 weeks from tonight in Hamilton. Great to see this is resolved for now.

oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:35 am

RagingBS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:42 pm
League opener is 2 weeks from tonight in Hamilton. Great to see this is resolved for now.
Is it resolved from a legal standpoint ? .

oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:39 am

RagingBS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:35 pm
oldtymer wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:44 pm
RagingBS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:17 pm
The divisions are the same, nothing has changed except the crossover games don't count. St Catherines is still in the Shoe, London is still in the West. The OHA had already ruled that Inc cant create their own loop and exclude the other members. Also note it is GOJHL Inc that charges the $750 per head fee. Maybe these teams have made a business decision as well come to the conclusion that they can attract and retain more of the talented players based on lowering or eliminating fees. Like it or not there are limits to what players will pay especially when their parents aren't footing the bill any longer. For the 19 or 20 year old player the so called benefits are limited.
I don't buy the argument that this is all about the players. I will call BS on that. It is funny that Hamilton is part of the non-Inc teams but they were the only ones to admit they charged 3500 / player last year. As the owner said Hockey is expensive.
He charged the maximum amount allowed and has since moved from Ancaster to Hamilton and doesn't have many returning players. You can believe being known as one of the most expensive places in Ontario to play has no affect if you want but I think the turnover speaks volumes.
Here is something I don't understand. What is the position of the non- Inc teams ? The fact that they don't want to pay their GOJHL fess is one thing but what do they really want. Do they want a cap on player's fees ? Its funny that the majority of the non -Inc teams are the ones that appear on the edge so I can't see how the obtain revenue to pay for the costs associated with running a Junior B team. Its all OK if you have an owner like the Corvairs had but I don't see that being the case with the Shoe teams

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:56 am

oldtymer wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:39 am
RagingBS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:35 pm
oldtymer wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:44 pm


I don't buy the argument that this is all about the players. I will call BS on that. It is funny that Hamilton is part of the non-Inc teams but they were the only ones to admit they charged 3500 / player last year. As the owner said Hockey is expensive.
He charged the maximum amount allowed and has since moved from Ancaster to Hamilton and doesn't have many returning players. You can believe being known as one of the most expensive places in Ontario to play has no affect if you want but I think the turnover speaks volumes.
Here is something I don't understand. What is the position of the non- Inc teams ? The fact that they don't want to pay their GOJHL fess is one thing but what do they really want. Do they want a cap on player's fees ? Its funny that the majority of the non -Inc teams are the ones that appear on the edge so I can't see how the obtain revenue to pay for the costs associated with running a Junior B team. Its all OK if you have an owner like the Corvairs had but I don't see that being the case with the Shoe teams
First off the GOJHL fee was never designed to offset team operating costs. When it was first instituted it was to hire a paid commissioner and pay the expenses of that office. There are other items as well such as reimbursements to teams for bus travel to the showcase, operating the all star/prospects events as well promoting the league to NCAA and CIS organizations. The $750 per player fee added up to well over 400K annually when GOJHL Inc had 27 members. 3 years later, the fees are paying for a commissioner and several convenors, the mid season events have been reduced to an all star game for 16 year olds and a prospect game for 17 and 18 year olds only, leaving nothing for the 19 and 20 year olds. The showcase was moved from in season to the first weekend in September at the conclusion of preseason. It has the advantage that all the scouts are available because many leagues have not started up yet, but many new players are finding their way and learning how the league works.

At the end of the day much of the pushback is from older players that are getting limited exposure. They are no longer bound by Hockey Canada to play within their province of residence at 18. When greener pastures present themselves in other provinces and USA, generally for less money if anything at all compared to the GOJHL INC fee plus the OHA fee. In many cases travel expenses (including pre and post season), all sticks and playing equipment, billets etc are not at the players expense. Other older players will want to stay close to home but are either working or going to university/college and they are now spending there own money from part time or summer jobs. Some of these guys will look to Jr C as a less expensive alternative and a longer playing career. Bottom line is that there are a lot more options for older players than you might think.

GOJHL INC also wanted to be reclassified as an A league, however that was quickly shot down by the CJHL and the OHA 3 years ago.

My understanding is that GOJHL INC has tried a compromise $325 fee for this season, but with only 15 teams revenue will be under 200K (less than half). I would still question how GOJHL INC will handle this cash shortfall? Reduce programs? Add additional fees to members part way through the season? Layoff some convenors?

oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 pm

RagingBS wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:56 am
oldtymer wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:39 am
RagingBS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:35 pm


He charged the maximum amount allowed and has since moved from Ancaster to Hamilton and doesn't have many returning players. You can believe being known as one of the most expensive places in Ontario to play has no affect if you want but I think the turnover speaks volumes.
Here is something I don't understand. What is the position of the non- Inc teams ? The fact that they don't want to pay their GOJHL fess is one thing but what do they really want. Do they want a cap on player's fees ? Its funny that the majority of the non -Inc teams are the ones that appear on the edge so I can't see how the obtain revenue to pay for the costs associated with running a Junior B team. Its all OK if you have an owner like the Corvairs had but I don't see that being the case with the Shoe teams
First off the GOJHL fee was never designed to offset team operating costs. When it was first instituted it was to hire a paid commissioner and pay the expenses of that office. There are other items as well such as reimbursements to teams for bus travel to the showcase, operating the all star/prospects events as well promoting the league to NCAA and CIS organizations. The $750 per player fee added up to well over 400K annually when GOJHL Inc had 27 members. 3 years later, the fees are paying for a commissioner and several convenors, the mid season events have been reduced to an all star game for 16 year olds and a prospect game for 17 and 18 year olds only, leaving nothing for the 19 and 20 year olds. The showcase was moved from in season to the first weekend in September at the conclusion of preseason. It has the advantage that all the scouts are available because many leagues have not started up yet, but many new players are finding their way and learning how the league works.

At the end of the day much of the pushback is from older players that are getting limited exposure. They are no longer bound by Hockey Canada to play within their province of residence at 18. When greener pastures present themselves in other provinces and USA, generally for less money if anything at all compared to the GOJHL INC fee plus the OHA fee. In many cases travel expenses (including pre and post season), all sticks and playing equipment, billets etc are not at the players expense. Other older players will want to stay close to home but are either working or going to university/college and they are now spending there own money from part time or summer jobs. Some of these guys will look to Jr C as a less expensive alternative and a longer playing career. Bottom line is that there are a lot more options for older players than you might think.

GOJHL INC also wanted to be reclassified as an A league, however that was quickly shot down by the CJHL and the OHA 3 years ago.

My understanding is that GOJHL INC has tried a compromise $325 fee for this season, but with only 15 teams revenue will be under 200K (less than half). I would still question how GOJHL INC will handle this cash shortfall? Reduce programs? Add additional fees to members part way through the season? Layoff some convenors?
So the less money the GOJHL gets, the less they can do , the less exposure the players get... how does that solve the issue of players leaving for more visible opportunities .

Marcie
Posts: 459
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:25 am
Location: Strathroy

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by Marcie » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:21 pm

JUNIOR B POTENTIAL CONFERENCE SHAKE-UP STILL UP IN THE AIR (StrathroyToday.ca)
As the Junior B Hockey regular season approaches, the conference set-up could have a serious change to its look which includes the Strathroy Rockets currently in the Western Conference of the Greater Ontario Junior Hockey League. Both BPSportsNiagara and the Welland Tribune are reporting the Golden Horseshoe conference of the league could have a huge new look. The St. Catharines Falcons are one of 15 GOJHL.Inc teams and the horseshoe's only team to propose a plan to play in their own separate conference for the season. The falcons would play in a division with Kitchener, Cambridge, Stratford, Waterloo, Elmira, and Listowel, while the other division would have teams from Strathroy, Sarnia, Leamington, Chatham, LaSalle, Komoka, St. Marys and St. Thomas with both divisions making up one conference. A third division would play in a separate conference with clubs from the remaining Golden Horseshoe teams Welland, Thorold, Lockport, Fort Erie, Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Pelham with additions being London from the West and Brampton and Brantford from the Midwest. Interlocking games would no longer exist and winners of each conference would meet for the Sutherland Cup. Curtis Clairmont, board member of the GOJHL.Inc. says the 15 teams have petitioned to operate as a 15-team conference within the OHA in the junior B category. The original petition was denied by the OHA. The ruling has been appealed to the Ontario Hockey Federation. Junior B operating budgets range from $175,000 to $400,000 annually, but Clairmont did not say how much the average league fee would be for the upcoming season. The OHA put out a schedule Monday afternoon but a little premature as myFM sources tell us the appeal to the OHF hasn't even been heard yet as of Monday, so still nothing is etched in stone. This year's Showcase Tournament which will take place Sept. 7-9 at the Seymour Hannah Sports Complex in St. Catharines but it's not known whether the games will count as regular-season games as in the past. The Strathroy Rockets play Saturday the 8th against Elmira at 1:30pm followed by a 7pm game Sunday September 9th against Cambridge.

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:22 pm

It would be interesting to know if this was from a league official or a MYFM employee that does play by play for one of the teams.

The original story from last week Curtis Clairmont also mentioned that there are 2 schedules already made out, one for just the 15 GOJHL INC teams and the other with all 25 GOJHL teams. Also mentioned was that INC has not heard back from the OHF and does not know if the OHF will even entertain a hearing on this, and that time was running out before a schedule would need to be released. Not every member decision is appealable. Some are listed below
What decisions may not be appealed to the OHF?

The following decisions may not be appealed
unless the decision itself is contrary to Hockey
Canada or OHF Constitution, By-Laws or
Regulations:
(a) Any decision by a Member as to the
outcome of any game or games;
(b) Any decision relating to the classification of
teams within the jurisdiction of a Member.

I would say this dispute clearly falls into b). The OHA only has one JRB league and GOJHL INC has appealed to have 10 teams removed. The proposed split classify teams in leagues depending on GOJHL INC membership. The OHA already ruled that GOJHL INC membership is not a condition of membership in the GOJHL.

I don't believe there is anything premature about releasing a league schedule when you are less than 15 days before the start of a season. If anything a decision needed to be made that was conducive to the OHA,OHF and Hockey Canada. The 25 team schedule is the only one that fits the criteria.

RagingBS
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by RagingBS » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 pm

oldtymer wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 pm
RagingBS wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:56 am
oldtymer wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:39 am


Here is something I don't understand. What is the position of the non- Inc teams ? The fact that they don't want to pay their GOJHL fess is one thing but what do they really want. Do they want a cap on player's fees ? Its funny that the majority of the non -Inc teams are the ones that appear on the edge so I can't see how the obtain revenue to pay for the costs associated with running a Junior B team. Its all OK if you have an owner like the Corvairs had but I don't see that being the case with the Shoe teams
First off the GOJHL fee was never designed to offset team operating costs. When it was first instituted it was to hire a paid commissioner and pay the expenses of that office. There are other items as well such as reimbursements to teams for bus travel to the showcase, operating the all star/prospects events as well promoting the league to NCAA and CIS organizations. The $750 per player fee added up to well over 400K annually when GOJHL Inc had 27 members. 3 years later, the fees are paying for a commissioner and several convenors, the mid season events have been reduced to an all star game for 16 year olds and a prospect game for 17 and 18 year olds only, leaving nothing for the 19 and 20 year olds. The showcase was moved from in season to the first weekend in September at the conclusion of preseason. It has the advantage that all the scouts are available because many leagues have not started up yet, but many new players are finding their way and learning how the league works.

At the end of the day much of the pushback is from older players that are getting limited exposure. They are no longer bound by Hockey Canada to play within their province of residence at 18. When greener pastures present themselves in other provinces and USA, generally for less money if anything at all compared to the GOJHL INC fee plus the OHA fee. In many cases travel expenses (including pre and post season), all sticks and playing equipment, billets etc are not at the players expense. Other older players will want to stay close to home but are either working or going to university/college and they are now spending there own money from part time or summer jobs. Some of these guys will look to Jr C as a less expensive alternative and a longer playing career. Bottom line is that there are a lot more options for older players than you might think.

GOJHL INC also wanted to be reclassified as an A league, however that was quickly shot down by the CJHL and the OHA 3 years ago.

My understanding is that GOJHL INC has tried a compromise $325 fee for this season, but with only 15 teams revenue will be under 200K (less than half). I would still question how GOJHL INC will handle this cash shortfall? Reduce programs? Add additional fees to members part way through the season? Layoff some convenors?
So the less money the GOJHL gets, the less they can do , the less exposure the players get... how does that solve the issue of players leaving for more visible opportunities .
Let me try to simplify this for you. If you are an older player, what exposure are you getting after 2 showcase games (if not with an OHL team at the time) during the remainder of the season? Maybe a player of the month award?

If a team has 6 20 year olds, 7 19 year olds, 5 18 year olds, 3 17 year olds and 2 16 year olds how many of those 23 players that paid a GOJHL fee qualify to be marketed through the prospects events? Answer is 10 of 23 players/payers will get the benefits of being a GOJHL INC member.

ILuvHackey
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:26 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by ILuvHackey » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:33 am

RagingBS wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 pm
Let me try to simplify this for you. If you are an older player, what exposure are you getting after 2 showcase games (if not with an OHL team at the time) during the remainder of the season? Maybe a player of the month award?

If a team has 6 20 year olds, 7 19 year olds, 5 18 year olds, 3 17 year olds and 2 16 year olds how many of those 23 players that paid a GOJHL fee qualify to be marketed through the prospects events? Answer is 10 of 23 players/payers will get the benefits of being a GOJHL INC member.
I know most of the teams Iv'e asked (in MW) make deals with the older players as they stick around. Heard something along the lines of 3rd year guys play for half cost and 4th year guys play free. There's a reason the older guys do stick around with the good organizations. Winning is one, for sure. But you'd be hardpressed to find 19 and 20 years olds playing for good teams who pay out the butt to be in the league.
RagingBS wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:22 pm
It would be interesting to know if this was from a league official or a MYFM employee that does play by play for one of the teams.

The original story from last week Curtis Clairmont also mentioned that there are 2 schedules already made out, one for just the 15 GOJHL INC teams and the other with all 25 GOJHL teams. Also mentioned was that INC has not heard back from the OHF and does not know if the OHF will even entertain a hearing on this, and that time was running out before a schedule would need to be released. Not every member decision is appealable. Some are listed below
What decisions may not be appealed to the OHF?

The following decisions may not be appealed
unless the decision itself is contrary to Hockey
Canada or OHF Constitution, By-Laws or
Regulations:
(a) Any decision by a Member as to the
outcome of any game or games;
(b) Any decision relating to the classification of
teams within the jurisdiction of a Member.

I would say this dispute clearly falls into b). The OHA only has one JRB league and GOJHL INC has appealed to have 10 teams removed. The proposed split classify teams in leagues depending on GOJHL INC membership. The OHA already ruled that GOJHL INC membership is not a condition of membership in the GOJHL.

I don't believe there is anything premature about releasing a league schedule when you are less than 15 days before the start of a season. If anything a decision needed to be made that was conducive to the OHA,OHF and Hockey Canada. The 25 team schedule is the only one that fits the criteria.
Except there is legal precedent as the GOJHL split a few years ago mid-season and the OHA allowed it. They're just being petty.

oldtymer
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by oldtymer » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:44 am

RagingBS wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:22 pm
It would be interesting to know if this was from a league official or a MYFM employee that does play by play for one of the teams.

The original story from last week Curtis Clairmont also mentioned that there are 2 schedules already made out, one for just the 15 GOJHL INC teams and the other with all 25 GOJHL teams. Also mentioned was that INC has not heard back from the OHF and does not know if the OHF will even entertain a hearing on this, and that time was running out before a schedule would need to be released. Not every member decision is appealable. Some are listed below
What decisions may not be appealed to the OHF?

The following decisions may not be appealed
unless the decision itself is contrary to Hockey
Canada or OHF Constitution, By-Laws or
Regulations:
(a) Any decision by a Member as to the
outcome of any game or games;
(b) Any decision relating to the classification of
teams within the jurisdiction of a Member.

I would say this dispute clearly falls into b). The OHA only has one JRB league and GOJHL INC has appealed to have 10 teams removed. The proposed split classify teams in leagues depending on GOJHL INC membership. The OHA already ruled that GOJHL INC membership is not a condition of membership in the GOJHL.

I don't believe there is anything premature about releasing a league schedule when you are less than 15 days before the start of a season. If anything a decision needed to be made that was conducive to the OHA,OHF and Hockey Canada. The 25 team schedule is the only one that fits the criteria.
So if the OHA rules that they cannot kick out the teams that don't pay their fees, why don't they simply disband the GOJHL and let the OHA run the league and lets see how the teams that like it. I am assuming it costs money to run the GOJHL so if they can't charge the teams the costs to run it they should throw all of the work to the OHA and see how they do. I have a funny feeling that the fees for the OHA will suddenly increase. It would not be fair if the 10 teams that won't pay their fees get the same privileges that the 15 teams that paid their fees get. That would really show the value of both the GOJHL and the OHA and whether either are worth their money.

On a different note who set up the current system for hockey. I am assuming the Liberals as I am not sure anyone else could have created such a cluster. You've got Hockey Canada, OHA, OHF, GOJHL and the many other leagues which I assume all have paid people working for them to do what? So much for the money going to players and coaches where it would be put to good use.

coachFloyd
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:08 am

Re: 2018/2019 Schedule

Post by coachFloyd » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:38 pm

oldtymer wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:44 am
RagingBS wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:22 pm
It would be interesting to know if this was from a league official or a MYFM employee that does play by play for one of the teams.

The original story from last week Curtis Clairmont also mentioned that there are 2 schedules already made out, one for just the 15 GOJHL INC teams and the other with all 25 GOJHL teams. Also mentioned was that INC has not heard back from the OHF and does not know if the OHF will even entertain a hearing on this, and that time was running out before a schedule would need to be released. Not every member decision is appealable. Some are listed below
What decisions may not be appealed to the OHF?

The following decisions may not be appealed
unless the decision itself is contrary to Hockey
Canada or OHF Constitution, By-Laws or
Regulations:
(a) Any decision by a Member as to the
outcome of any game or games;
(b) Any decision relating to the classification of
teams within the jurisdiction of a Member.

I would say this dispute clearly falls into b). The OHA only has one JRB league and GOJHL INC has appealed to have 10 teams removed. The proposed split classify teams in leagues depending on GOJHL INC membership. The OHA already ruled that GOJHL INC membership is not a condition of membership in the GOJHL.

I don't believe there is anything premature about releasing a league schedule when you are less than 15 days before the start of a season. If anything a decision needed to be made that was conducive to the OHA,OHF and Hockey Canada. The 25 team schedule is the only one that fits the criteria.
So if the OHA rules that they cannot kick out the teams that don't pay their fees, why don't they simply disband the GOJHL and let the OHA run the league and lets see how the teams that like it. I am assuming it costs money to run the GOJHL so if they can't charge the teams the costs to run it they should throw all of the work to the OHA and see how they do. I have a funny feeling that the fees for the OHA will suddenly increase. It would not be fair if the 10 teams that won't pay their fees get the same privileges that the 15 teams that paid their fees get. That would really show the value of both the GOJHL and the OHA and whether either are worth their money.

On a different note who set up the current system for hockey. I am assuming the Liberals as I am not sure anyone else could have created such a cluster. You've got Hockey Canada, OHA, OHF, GOJHL and the many other leagues which I assume all have paid people working for them to do what? So much for the money going to players and coaches where it would be put to good use.
The most accurate statement made is there is too many hands in the pot in hockey in this country

and the only thing worse than paying $750 to play and only the younger half getting exposure is paying $750, younger half getting exposure and none of the money went to the GOJHL INC....allegedly :)

Post Reply