GOJHL AGM Today

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richard
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by richard » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:01 pm

As an old time past hockey team operator trying to understand
Junior b teams wishing to go jr a and oha blocking there requests.
If this is case why would oha want to block leagues clubs from giving there local area players and fans the opportunity
To play jr a and keep good players rather then lose them
Oha position very confusing




Letterkenny68
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Letterkenny68 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Did I not explain in an earlier post the decision to grant A status to teams is currently not in the hands of the OHA.
As for the issue of the OHA Chair calling teams I believe the reason for that was to reiterate no team is required to pay to be part of the GOJHL Inc in order to play in the GOJHL. On the other hand I have also heard that certain members of the Inc group have called teams and threatened to refuse to not schedule those teams which is completely contradictary to the letter issues by the OHA 2 weeks ago and contardictory to the agreement that was reached between the OHA and the teams when a near civil war was breaking out weeks before the OHA AGM. Hold on to your hats folks. Teams that cannot and will not follow the agreements, rulings and governance of the parent body are at risk of being expelled so to speak.

RagingBS
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RagingBS » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Does the Greater Ontario Hockey League fall under the jurisdiction of the OHA or GOJHL Inc. Is this Commissioner a league employee under the OHA, or is he the CEO of GOJHL Inc?

Letterkenny68
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Letterkenny68 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:32 pm

GOJHL falls under the OHA.....NOT the GOJHL Inc. The commissioner is not associated with the OHA and is a paid employee of the GOJHL Inc.

RagingBS
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RagingBS » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:05 pm

So the bottom line is that when players are told that they must pay a $750 fee to the GOJHL to play in the league, that is a misleading statement. The GOJHL fee is really just part of a team assessment that should have been properly disclosed as being a membership due that is required by the particular team to have membership in a private entity (GOJHL Inc) that operates outside the league and governing body to provide certain benefits to its members.

Letterkenny68
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Letterkenny68 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:27 pm

BINGO! So now the real question is at $750 a player and roughly 520 players in the league. What exactly is the $390,000.00 value the players are getting from the GOJHL Inc.?

RagingBS
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RagingBS » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:36 pm

The commissioner gets about 50K plus expenses. I guess the other 340K goes somewhere. Back to structure. If the GOJHL is the only JrB league under the OHA and the OHA has territorial rights that include all of southwestern Ontario, how can Inc teams play in a differnt league than the mainstream.GOJHL teams without being an outlaw league? I dont see Inc winning this.

RocketGirl
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RocketGirl » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:12 pm

Yes, it pays for the Commissioner's salary. I presume it also pays the new Deputy Commissioner, perhaps the 3 Convenors get paid as well. It pays for the Showcase event, which includes the ice rental for 3 days, referees and linesmen for the 50 games to be played, I'm sure the photographer that's there is paid as well. Perhaps there are other expenses with the Showcase that we're not aware of, or haven't thought of. There's the Prospect's Games, which again you have ice rental and officials to pay for. There's probably other things the league pays for that we're not aware of, or never thought of.

Here's another question. I just did some rough calculations. If you take 25 GOJHL teams, 63 PJHL teams, 22 OJHL teams and 5 Sr. A teams, and 23 players each at $395.50, the OHA collects over $1,000,000.00 from players in their player fee. What does that go towards? It doesn't pay for the teams' membership fee, insurance or pointstreak because they charge the teams separately for those.
Queen of the GOJHL

Sometimes you just have to straighten your crown and remind them who they're dealing with.

Letterkenny68
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Letterkenny68 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:47 pm

Are you professing that the showcase weekend and a prospects day cost 300 grand? And had huge value for the cost the players put forward? I can tell you factually the showcase weekend had a grand cost of $40,000. Before we start hammering on the OHA and their budget versus fees and the services they provide let's stay the course on the GOJHL and GOJHL Inc. discussion and the value of lack there of provided for a large fee to the players.

RocketGirl
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RocketGirl » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:09 pm

Well, since you factually know things, what are the expenses of the GOJHL? I'm guessing on the things they pay for, I don't actually know. I don't know what the budget is for the GOJHL, but by the looks of it, it's $390,000 a year.
Queen of the GOJHL

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RagingBS
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RagingBS » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:14 am

Every year players will evaluate fees. Fact is that not everyone one is convinced they are getting there money's worth out of GOJHL fee. For example there is no prospect event for 19 and 20 year olds. There don't appear to have been a significant increase in NCAA or CIS commitments directly from the GOJHL since the fee was brought in. Players will always compare their own experiences with their friends in other leagues. A player can choose to go to the PJHL and only pay the OHA fee plus get an extra year if just playing out his career. If looking to play hockey at university playing at the A level will get better exposure. The OJHlL and CCHL will cost significantly more, but if you have to move away to play JrA as is the current reality in SW Ontario, there are other JrA leagues in Canada and leagues in the USA the charge less than the GOJHL teams if anything at all but offer much better exposure.

RocketGirl
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RocketGirl » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:10 am

Well, apparently they have scrapped the player fee and it's now a team fee of $7500. So if the teams charge it to their players, it's $325 each.

Here is the letter that was given to players about the fees.
Attachments
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Queen of the GOJHL

Sometimes you just have to straighten your crown and remind them who they're dealing with.

Letterkenny68
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Letterkenny68 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:52 am

And where does this state the fee is reduced? I believe the fee is still $750. Teams are required to pay $7500 by yesterday and then another $7500 earlier in the season. At an average of 20 players a team that still works out to $750 a head. Given the listing of what this buys you it's no wonder kids are bolting to leagues that provide way more exposure and have a much higher rate of moving kids to NCAA and CIS hockey.

RocketGirl
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RocketGirl » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:19 pm

The email that I received with that letter is where it says it's a team fee of $7500 instead of player fees, but regardless, you and I are clearly on opposite sides of this issue. I'm with Inc and you're not, which is perfectly fine, but I'm understanding why nothing ever gets done at league meetings.
Queen of the GOJHL

Sometimes you just have to straighten your crown and remind them who they're dealing with.

Letterkenny68
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Letterkenny68 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:39 pm

I am not so much against the Inc. I am more for the player. At the end of the day it's supposed to be about the player. So far there is nothing the Inc have done or are doing that is about anything other than the almighty dollar. If your position is more about the stature of A (main push of the Inc.) then I cannot see how ALL the teams in the GOJHL can take on A status. 5 maybe 6 or 7 at the outside. The talent pool has really thinned in southwestern Ontario the last 10 years or so. Actually with declining minor hockey numbers across the province the overall talent pool is declining for junior programs. So kids looking for college options run to BCHL which is listed as the top league in Canada below major junior. And BCHL by definition is not a pay2play league. Now we have kids moving to USHL and NAHL programs as both are considered stronger leagues and are not pay2play leagues.

Hockeylover321
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Hockeylover321 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:48 pm

I am confused as hell by all this. Can someone post a version of GOJHL vs GOJHL Inc. for Dummies? (ie. GOJHL is it what exists now? GOJHL Inc is ??? and which teams are one or the other?)

Letterkenny68
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Letterkenny68 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:06 pm

Well as a league and part of the OHA under the OHF and HC all teams are part of the GOJHL. As for which teams are a part of the GOJHL Inc , by fees payment, I am not sure. Apparently there are less then before that are a part of the Inc but whom I do not know for sure. I could guess at things but guessing only gets one into trouble. Maybe the Inc will publish the membership list after this weekend. Who knows?

BeenThereDoneThat
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by BeenThereDoneThat » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:21 pm

Word is around 60 t0 65 % of the GOJHL have signed up and paid their 50% of league fees($3700) to the GOJHL.Inc. We will all know tomorrow who these teams are when the GOJHL.Inc announces their 2018/2019 schedule. Thats when you'll see the s--* hit the fan.

Hockeylover321
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Hockeylover321 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:14 pm

Sounds like tomorrow could be an interesting day! Thanks for the info.

GOJHLfan1
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by GOJHLfan1 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:28 pm

BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:21 pm
Word is around 60 t0 65 % of the GOJHL have signed up and paid their 50% of league fees($3700) to the GOJHL.Inc. We will all know tomorrow who these teams are when the GOJHL.Inc announces their 2018/2019 schedule. Thats when you'll see the s--* hit the fan.
Highly doubt a schedule comes out tomorrow

coachFloyd
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by coachFloyd » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:30 am

I'm guessing the GOJHL Inc legal fees are atrocious - but if they want any chance of being classified "A" they have to fight the OHA.
OHA wants control of the GOJHL to appease the OJHL who they sold their soul to years ago
OHA legal fees are also atrocious as the exec is highly litigious on any and all matters

Bottom line is the players (parents) are paying for this massive pissing contest

The only hope is for OHF or HC to come in , clean house of fevered egos and start doing what's best for the players

RagingBS
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RagingBS » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:49 am

At the end of the day, someone in Ontario should be able to figure out how to run a Junior hockey system here at least as well at a competitive cost to the player as the other Canadian junior leagues. The fact that more players leave Ontario (especially OHA territory) to play hockey than come here should be evidence that the system is not working. The Pay2Play model that plagues the OHA does not work. The OHF needs to provide a better alternative. Ontario with all its resources should be able to at least match the BCHL and AJHL with a Junior A league of similar quality and cost. The cost should actually be less because the travel (bus) in OHA land is less and easier than any other league. All of the OHA leagues need to get back to making this about the players first. There are reasons why it seems like the talent in junior hockey in Ontario is on the decline. Cost is a factor. GOJHL Inc would do better by trying to be less like the OJHL and let there be as large of a gap in player cost as possible to play in the OJHL rather than GOJHL. If change in fee structure is as reported, the teams that find traditional ways other than billing players the total cost of all expenses will not lose as many players. This in turn will increase the talent pool. Get back to showcasing the 19 and 20 year olds that are University/College ready and the older players will feel the need to leave to get seen.

oldtymer
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by oldtymer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:56 pm

Sorry a bit confused here on this situation... You have 25 teams in the GOJHL .. based on previous comments it appears that 17 of the 25 ( 70%) will vote to stay in the GOJHL under their rules ( payment go to GOJHL) . If the majority of the teams ( >51%) appear to be siding with the GOJHL, can being in the GOJHL be that bad. If the GOJHL were that bad wouldn't the majority have opted out and not paid their fees ? It seems like the minority ( significant % but still a minority) are trying to force the their will upon the majority who seem content with the GOJHL arrangement. Why don't the teams that don't like the GOJHL system simply bow out and form a new league under the OHA rules and let the other teams continue to operate as is. In the end, the winner of the GOJHL could play the winner of the Super seven for the Sutherland.

RagingBS
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RagingBS » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:34 pm

GOJHL Inc are the majority group of owners. They are in favour of the pay2play and collect player fee. There membership is currently 17

The rest of the GOJHL teams (8) are not in favour of the pay2play but players still benefit from what GOJHL Inc provides.

GOJHL Inc is a separate entity that represents some of the GOJHL league

As it stands the GOJHL (league) is the only Jr B league under the OHA at this time.

ILuvHackey
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by ILuvHackey » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:50 pm

RagingBS wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:34 pm
GOJHL Inc are the majority group of owners. They are in favour of the pay2play and collect player fee. There membership is currently 17

The rest of the GOJHL teams (8) are not in favour of the pay2play but players still benefit from what GOJHL Inc provides.

GOJHL Inc is a separate entity that represents some of the GOJHL league

As it stands the GOJHL (league) is the only Jr B league under the OHA at this time.
The other teams are paytoplay even if they aren't part of the GOJHL Inc. In fact, most of the teams who are bowing out, have some of the highest rumored fees in the entire league.

This is patently false.

Ron
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Ron » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:10 pm

Looks like your schedule release date was a little optimistic!

BeenThereDoneThat
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by BeenThereDoneThat » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:00 pm

Ron,
the GOJHL.Inc issued a schedule for the Western Division yesterday and I suspect putting together the
Eastern Schedule was a little more difficult with St.Catharines joining that group. I would expect to see the
Eastern Schedule very shortly.

Hockeylover321
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Hockeylover321 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:40 pm

So there are only two divisions? East and West? Do we know who are in each yet?

RocketGirl
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by RocketGirl » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:36 am

The West is the West, minus London. The East is the Midwest, minus Brantford and Brampton, plus St Catharines.
Queen of the GOJHL

Sometimes you just have to straighten your crown and remind them who they're dealing with.

Dr. Pepper
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Re: GOJHL AGM Today

Post by Dr. Pepper » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:19 am

RocketGirl wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:36 am
The West is the West, minus London. The East is the Midwest, minus Brantford and Brampton, plus St Catharines.
Then it would only make sense to move St Marys to the East and save on travel for them and teams having to go there from the Windsor - Chatham area.

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