Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

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arcprohd
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Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by arcprohd »

Notice Wesley Shaw posted on Facebook that the Lambton Shore Predators are making the move to Komoka.

Pictures of the rink in Komoka paint it as an impressive place to play. Never made it to a Predators game in the past. Nice to see if true the community gets a step up from the Komoka Dragons GMHL team.
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

If this is true than it is a huge mistake in my opinion. The Komoka Classic's won the Senior AA championship 4 years ago playing out of the Komoka arena on Saturday night's and they only drew approximately 40-50 fans per game, in games that featured many ex Jr. B. and Jr.A and NCAA and pro players on all teams. The Predators averaged approximately 200 fans per game in Forest. I wish them luck but I can't see them drawing very well in Komoka.
FrozenPonds
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

They first need League approval but more importantly, they need OHA approval!

The GOJHL needs to not be as militant with regards to their transition team. Life is not about getting everything you want! Ask for something, but have something smaller or less important ready to go so it makes it appear you are making concessions. Junior "A" isn't going to happen anytime soon folks. Lets take the product we have, a great brand, and build it!!
Marcie
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Marcie »

I believe that London (18.3km), Strathroy (20.1km) and St. Thomas (35.4km) might fall within their protected range. St. Marys (35.8km) may be a little too far away. Which team do you think may suffer the most if the Preds move to Komoka?
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

I don't see why the OHA would object if the league has already ratified the move. Jr B anywhere is going to be a bigger fan draw than senior hockey or the GMHL. This move would put the Preds in a great position to work directly with the Elgin Middlesex Chiefs since they would share the same facility. If the MHAO allow the Chiefs Major Midget status a club affiliation would follow. This would give the Preds the same recruiting advantages the Nats have with the London. Jr Knights affiliation. Obviously this move will make recruitment more difficult for someone with 5 teams in the London- Middlesex region . The OHL Knights are currently sending their best to St Mary's so they should not be affected. St Thomas could see a hit because they do rely on enticing Chief grads, but will be Ok with some from the Knights and the Nats cuts. I would expect Strathroy to be hardest hit especially if the Preds stick to Saturday night home games. Those cut from London and St Thomas will look at Komoka before going all the way to Strathroy. Komoka is close enough to London to draw fans especially if they can recruit skilled local talent. The move, if it happens will be an overall positive for the region but will create some hardships along the way.
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Senior AA final between Clinton Radars and Petrolia Squires this past year were drawing 1700 - 2200 fans per game, :wink: not many Jr. B teams draw that and the year Komoka was in the final they drew less than 100. Most teams in the AA loop draw 400 - 600 fans to regular season games not many Jr. B teams do that and the Predators certainly won't in Komoka playing on a Saturday night competing against the Rockets and the Mt. Brydges Bulldogs for fans. Not sure what makes you think the Knights send their top prospects to the Lincolns as the Lincs have no affiliation with the Knights. Most major jr A teams cuts will return home and play on a local team ie OJHL, CJHL, I can't think of one GOJHL team that has an exclusive affiliation with a Jr. A team. Jr. B teams can only have 2 players 16 years of age and many times they will be a local kid.
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

The Mt Brydges Bulldogs play Friday nights so that isn't part of the equation. London Stratford Sarnia and Chatham all draw significantly more than 500 fans on average The London Knights top prospects, Billy Moskal ( Sudbury) Riley Coome (Dorchester) and Jordan Kooy ( Bradford) all played in St Mary's. Richard Whittaker (Holland Landing) Max Vinogradov (London) played London Nationals, Alex Turko ( London) and Christian Clark (Whitby) were in St Thomas. I wouldn't consider Moskal Kooy Whittaker or Clark local 16 year olds. The Preds could draw close to 500 in Komoka because the London kids would be playing locally easily exceeding what they can draw in Forest. The Major Jr teams will place there best players with a team close by so they have easy access to them and they can attend practices with the team. No affiliation agreement needed, they just need to buy those 16 year old cards from the teams they can work with. There is little difference between the GOJHL and lower end Jr A leagues like the OJHL and NOJHL, so there would be no reason to send a top prospect that far away.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Of the three Lincolns players you mention that have London Knight connections only one would be considered a "top prospect" Bill Moskal drafted in the second round of the 2016 priority draft and surely the Knights would have approached likely several teams asking them if they had an interest in signing him as one of their 16 year olds as they would like to keep him close to London and obviously he was a fit in St Marys. Jordan Kooy was an 8th round pick in the same draft and after not being able to place him on a local Jr team he was sent to the London Jr Knights Major Midget team, the Lincolns than signed him as an APM on December 19th and he only played in 5 regular season games and 2 1/2 playoff games. Riley Coome is undrafted and signed with the Knights as a F/A, after failing to make the team he signed with the London Nationals where he played until being traded to the Lincs on December 13th along with Kenny Chisholm for the Lincs leading scorer Brandon Glover.
So to say "the OHL Knights are currently sending their best to St Mary's" is really a stretch.

Again not sure if you know how Major Jr A teams assign their players but the the teams in the GOJHL have no obligation of "having to take" anyone other than who they want to sign as none of the GOJHL teams that I can think of are a "farm team" to any of the Jr A teams.
The Sarnia Legionnaires have a working agreement with the Sting but even the Sting had to place Braden Henderson a 6th round pick in the 2016 draft from Barrie with the Chatham Maroons as the Legionnaires decided to sign two "local" 16 year old undrafted boys from Sarnia.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

Kooy was placed with the Lincs at the request of the Knights as he was gaining nothing competitively by playing Major Midget.

There may be no affiliation between clubs but if there are historical connections between teams and the Knights off the ice, you can bet the Lincs will be the first team they talk to because of that "connection". This game as well as being highly political, is also one of networking connections!

Maybe that is something the league should go after? Affiliations between OHL clubs and the GOJHL. Off the top of my head, you have Guelph, Kitchener, London, Owen Sound, Niagara, Hamilton, Windsor and Sarnia within the geographical regions contained within the GOJHL. We could also throw in Erie, Flint and Saginaw as there are no NAHL, USHL teams within close proximity. You could reasonably assume OHL teams would not want to send their kids to the USHL as they are in direct competition with the OHL. Not even sure if there has been any dialogue on that but that is 12 teams.

And to the point of affiliation, the OHL teams are not obligated to feed the OJHL. So that in itself is reason to explore the potential working relationship. All it takes is dialogue...it's either gonna be a yes or a no.
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

Most OHL teams use more than one place to send their affiliates. Sarnia appears to be using Chatham instead of Lambton Shores as a 2nd affiliate. Henderson and Ethan Lavallee were both re assigned to Chatham when they did not make the Sting. Legionnaires only signed 1 16 year old initially. The second one was called up from major midget to replace some injured players and was eventually signed to the team. The Knights used the Nats for their top prospects when former Knight Kelly Thomson was the coach. St Mary's coach Scott Thompson is also a former Knight player. Do we see any similarities yet?
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

Again...all comes down to connections!
Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

When Seth Griffth from Wallaceburg was a 4th round draft pick of the Knights he played in St Marys with Merlin Malinowski as coach and Warren Nye as manager neither with a London Knight connection, at the same time twins Matt and Ryan Rupert drafted by the Knights were playing in Lambton shores. because they were from Grand Bend.
Do you get it yet.
FrozenPonds
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

Not sure what the point you are trying to make is?

Do I get it yet? I am sure some kids stay close to home DP. Some kids drafted by OHL teams are actually not from the area the respective OHL team is located. If there is a relationship between an organization and a coach of a Junior B team, do you think that connection could be utilized?
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

FrozenPonds wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 3:13 pm Not sure what the point you are trying to make is?<br abp="648"><br abp="649">Do I get it yet? I am sure some kids stay close to home DP. Some kids drafted by OHL teams are actually not from the area the respective OHL team is located. If there is a relationship between an organization and a coach of a Junior B team, do you think that connection could be utilized?

Not about you. I am simply refuting Undertakers original statement, " The OHL Knights are currently sending their best to St Mary's so they should not be affected". that is simply not the case, The Knights do not do the Lincolns any favors they just send their cuts to whatever team mutually feels they will be a fit on.

FYI Thompson played for the North Bay Battalion 98-99 till 2000-01. He has a brief history with the Knights prior to the Hunters getting involved being drafted there in the 11th round in 1997, he did not make the team that year and in 1998 played only 5 games with the Knights before being claimed in the OHL expansion draft by the Battalion so I hardly think that there is a big sense of urgency by the Hunters or current GM Basil Mcrae to help the Lincs load up.
Undertaker
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

Basil McRae is with the Columbus Blue Jackets. Just because you can't find a connection doesn't mean it isn't there. Every scenario you have mentioned there is a connection. Merlin was a teammate of Rob Rammage in Colorado who in turn went to work for the Knights who are owned by former St Louis and Calgary teammate Mark Hunter . Derian Hatcher played in Dallas with Pat Verbeek who is closely related to Brian Verbeek. Brian is a former teammate of Jeff Chychrun who's son played for the Sting. As for your theory on the Rupert's abbreviated stay in Lambton Shores the Knights arranged to have them and Kevin Raine traded to St Thomas with the 16 year old cards they were using at the time. Like it or not, none of the current Knights prospects would have been in St. Mary's without the coaching change that was made last off season . It may not seem fair but connections make many careers at the expense of a player or team with limited connections
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Blah blah blah. your connections are a stretch at best. Under your theory the Lambton shore predators should have gotten all the Knights because they were coached by Brian Dobbin who was from Petrolia and was friends and team mates of the Hunters growing up. Brian Dobbin's sister Barb Clarke is Randy Clarke's wife, Randy Clarke, Dale Hunters best man, best friend and most would consider brothers can be found at most London Knights home games sitting in the owners box. Nope your conspiracy theory won't fly

The Ruperts never played in St Thomas.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Port hockey1 »

Dr. Pepper wrote: Sun May 14, 2017 7:41 pm Senior AA final between Clinton Radars and Petrolia Squires this past year were drawing 1700 - 2200 fans per game, :wink: not many Jr. B teams draw that and the year Komoka was in the final they drew less than 100. Most teams in the AA loop draw 400 - 600 fans to regular season games not many Jr. B teams do that and the Predators certainly won't in Komoka playing on a Saturday night competing against the Rockets and the Mt. Brydges Bulldogs for fans. Not sure what makes you think the Knights send their top prospects to the Lincolns as the Lincs have no affiliation with the Knights. Most major jr A teams cuts will return home and play on a local team ie OJHL, CJHL, I can't think of one GOJHL team that has an exclusive affiliation with a Jr. A team. Jr. B teams can only have 2 players 16 years of age and many times they will be a local kid.
I'd go to Senior A games over Jr.B any day. :) The pace is slower, but the skill is off the charts.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by RocketGirl »

What does OHL affiliation have to do with the Predators moving to Komoka?

But since that's what you guys are talking about, riddle me this....

Is it a benefit or a hindrance to have an affiliation agreement with an OHL club?
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Dr. Pepper
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

Port hockey1 wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 5:52 pm
Dr. Pepper wrote: Sun May 14, 2017 7:41 pm Senior AA final between Clinton Radars and Petrolia Squires this past year were drawing 1700 - 2200 fans per game, :wink: not many Jr. B teams draw that and the year Komoka was in the final they drew less than 100. Most teams in the AA loop draw 400 - 600 fans to regular season games not many Jr. B teams do that and the Predators certainly won't in Komoka playing on a Saturday night competing against the Rockets and the Mt. Brydges Bulldogs for fans. Not sure what makes you think the Knights send their top prospects to the Lincolns as the Lincs have no affiliation with the Knights. Most major jr A teams cuts will return home and play on a local team ie OJHL, CJHL, I can't think of one GOJHL team that has an exclusive affiliation with a Jr. A team. Jr. B teams can only have 2 players 16 years of age and many times they will be a local kid.
I'd go to Senior A games over Jr.B any day. :) The pace is slower, but the skill is off the charts.
The Senior AA league that stretch's from Tillsonburg in the South to Shallow Lake in the north is the best kept secret in the hockey world. Most teams roster's are filled with players that have played a minimum Jr. B calibre hockey many having gone on to minor pro, NCAA, OUA, Major Jr. A, there is even a few ex NHL players in the league. As I said at the time that the Komoka Classics were the league champ they had several ex London Knights, a Plymouth Whaler quite a few ex western mustangs and they only drew approx 60 fans to a game , I am afraid the Predators will face huge disappointment if they re-locate there.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Rookie 29 »

Dr Pepper you are correct in the WOAA Senior Hockey League being the best kept secret in the area. There are probably only 2 teams Clinton and Pt Elgin that can show a committed fan base each week most depend on a long playoff run to generate a nice revenue. Clinton has an operating budget close to some of the Jr. B teams and compensate many of their players and coaches quite generously. The Classics would still be playing if they could have reached a fair agreement with the municipality if Lambton Shores are to move there a mutual agreement will need to be done. I think the township will be very careful after the Dragons left them high and dry
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

RocketGirl wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 6:06 pm What does OHL affiliation have to do with the Predators moving to Komoka?

But since that's what you guys are talking about, riddle me this....

Is it a benefit or a hindrance to have an affiliation agreement with an OHL club?
I think most Jr. B managers would look at it as a hindrance and that is why I can't think of one team that has an official affiliation with a Major Jr. A club. I don't think any teams management would want to be dictated to as to whom they must sign.
I can remember back to the Petrolia Jets having an affiliation with the London Knight when Michael Zador was a 1st round goaltending prospect that was sent to Petrolia, he started the game promptly letting in 4 goals he was removed for the backup still in the first period who let in 0, 2nd period starts Zador is back in the net. Mark Hunter was at the game and I was told that he went to the Jets dressing room and demanded that he was there to watch his prospect not some kid who was going to end up playing "beer league". No manager wants his hands tied like that
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

RocketGirl wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 6:06 pm What does OHL affiliation have to do with the Predators moving to Komoka?

But since that's what you guys are talking about, riddle me this....

Is it a benefit or a hindrance to have an affiliation agreement with an OHL club?
Affiliation has its benefits and drawbacks. Generally it is more beneficial to the higher level team. Keep in mind the higher level team can send prospects to any number of places. Generally the ones that are almost ready will get placed on a local team whether the team is affiliated or not. If the team is affiliated like the Legionnaires are to the Sting, all players who are not drafted are automatically affiliated to the major team unless they are drafted or signed by another team. For most players the affiliation will limit their access to other OHL teams until season's end but some will get some exposure. Last season both the Knights and Sting used the affiliated teams to call up free agents at strategic times during the season. On the other side they will supply the affilates with talent that may have not been available, but will ask that they be played in preferential roles.if a team does as the big club wants they will likely get better players sent their way. Important note if prospects don't develop as the team expects it will likely be reflected by the players made available next season.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

RocketGirl wrote: Mon May 15, 2017 6:06 pm What does OHL affiliation have to do with the Predators moving to Komoka?

But since that's what you guys are talking about, riddle me this....

Is it a benefit or a hindrance to have an affiliation agreement with an OHL club?
Well gosh darnet, its amazing what one can find out by doing a little research.

RG you can ask your own management group what its like to have a major jr a team as an affiliate as it seems that both the Rockets as well as the Legionnaires share the Sarnia Sting as a "parent team" and yet the Sting sent their players to the Maroons. huh

The London Knights list both the London Nationals and the St. Thomas Stars as their "top farm teams" and yet according to some they send their "top prospects" to the St. Marys Lincolns who are affiliated with no one, seems strange to me.

There are many other jr a teams listing affiliations but it is to lengthy to get into.

In summation I would say having an affiliation with a major jr a team don't mean diddly.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

The Rockets are affiliated with the Sting? I wasn't aware of that.i know that the Sting generally send 2 players to the Legionnaires, maybe RG or DP could enlighten me as to which Rocket players are Sting property.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by FrozenPonds »

I definitely wouldn't say it is a hinderance...but I would say it would definitely bring some instant credibility to a league that DESPERATELY needs it!
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by RocketGirl »

The last one I can think of is Davis Brown, and that was 6 seasons ago, but I don't always know who the boys have been drafted by.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Marcie »

The Rockets were affiliated with the Knights for one season. They had three underagers, Bobby Bolt, Scott Restoule and shared Josh Beaulieu. Beaulieu billeted in London, practiced with the Knights and played with the Rockets whenever the Knights had no game. On occasion he would play a Sunday matinee with the Knights, then the evening game with the Rockets. The danger always is having a player brought up for the balance of the season or having them traded away by their OHL team. The Stars ran into that problem a couple of years ago when they lost Eric Henderson and Ryan Valentini when the Knights dealt them. That's a tough blow right before the playoffs. Having a goalie affiliating is a big danger. You lose your goaltender at the trading deadline and you can be in a real mess.
Last edited by Marcie on Tue May 16, 2017 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ILuvHackey
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by ILuvHackey »

Kitchener Rangers and Kitchener Dutchmen are affiliated.

From what I've heard, the Rangers get to use one of the Dutchies two 16 year old cards every year.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Dr. Pepper »

"Having a goalie affiliating is a big danger. You lose your goaltender at the trading deadline and you can be in a real mess."

Marcie, I am glad you brought that up as it reminded me of another scenario where Jr A teams can't dictate to their affiliates as to whom they must sign and play. Back a few years ago the Sting drafted goaltender Peter DiSalvo from the Toronto area in the second round, they approached their affiliate the Sarnia Blast asking them to take DiSalvo as one of their 16 year olds, the Blast had already committed their 2 underage cards to 2 local players and they had their goaltending set with John Faulkner and Mark Pereira. The Sting then sent DiSalvo to the Maroons purchasing one of the Maroons underage cards. The Maroons also didn't need a goalie as they were set with Mike Ostropolic but had only committed to one local 16 year old so they agreed to take DiSalvo at a set price. DiSalvo very rarely played for Chatham but the Sting were happy as he was close and could practise with them and the Maroons as well. On deadline day January 10th the Ottawa 67s released goalie Jake Fischer from Belle River whom the Maroons quickly picked up, having no need for 3 goaltenders the Maroons released DiSalvo leaving DiSalvo with no place to play.
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Re: Lambton Shore Predators to Komoka?

Post by Undertaker »

The municipality will be meeting on June 21 for a final decision on the Preds becoming a major tennant at the Komoka Wellness and Recreation Centre. To me this looks like a done deal with the Preds replacing the defunct GMHL team that folded last fall. This has been confirmed on MyFm 105.7 in Strathroy
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