Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

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BlackJacket
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by BlackJacket »

Cali vairs! wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:27 pm I know a lot of people who have stayed away because of how downhill the actual hockey has become. No team is nearly as fast or as skilled as last years teams. Of course a little bit slower hockey is going to kill attendance. Think about this year compared to other seasons and look at the quality of the hockey. Might be because of the new rule but who knows.

I respectfully disagree with that.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by BlackJacket »

Cali vairs! wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:36 pm
Cal 99ers wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:41 pm From my experience iv'e notice most teams look great first 5 mins of the game,maybe the idea is to catch the other team flat footed,get a couple of goals then hold on. This tactic worked good for every team in the past except for the Leafs.For the first time in the playoffs this year ,what I expected to happen did actually happen,Elmira is very consistent.London is better this year from what iv'e seen,but they could use Gomes.Brown and Gomes are very similar in style,but Brown has the scoring touch.
Yea but London still IMO was the better team 5 on 5 and had the better chances. But Reinhart kept them in it until Elmira could strike on the PP and then a gift goal from the hash marks. Gonna be a decent series but i think Elmira wins in 5 if London plays the same way they did in the first game
Its like we weren't watching the same game. Unless you weren't watching and are looking at the shots in the boxscore? Elmira was the better team almost the whole game. And once they were up they sat back. the last 10 minutes of their 3-2 win over london looked like the last 10 minutes of their 3-2 game 6 series clinching win over caledonia in which they also were outshot (44-33).
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Caledonia Fan »

@LondonNationals page. https://youtu.be/nyFw698S7n0

This is want coach Pat Powers and Quinn Lenihan said about the game
Average to below average start to the game
I agree with BlackJacket
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cali vairs! »

London way outperformed Elmira early in the game. The rest of the game was close end to end hockey. London looked like the more dominant team where as Elmira took advantage of opportunities given (like a good team does). Elmira hung back during the game. London at midpoint through struggled getting the puck into there end. Maybe thats why they looked better. Even talking to a couple scouts they said London is the more skilled team but they try and be to fancy. London didn't get a lot of great chances though if that what you mean
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by BlackJacket »

Yes that's what I mean
Not who is the better team but who was the better team last game - Elmira.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cal 99ers »

Yes,I totally agree.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Port hockey1 »

I've really underestimated the Sugar Kings. London has a very deep group of forwards. So I wasn't expecting a wildcard team that has already lost a series to defeat them. Especially when you consider the team Elmira lost to, was defeated by London.

Elmira's up 2-0 in the 2nd period tonight. I think they're bring the Sutherland Cup back to the Mid-West, for the first time in several seasons.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by jfvoll »

Port hockey1 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:43 pm
Elmira's up 2-0 in the 2nd period tonight. I think they're bring the Sutherland Cup back to the Mid-West, for the first time in several seasons.
Elmira was up 2-0 on Listowel before losing in 6. London, in my perception is the better team and in the course of the long run, I believe will come on top.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by BLACKHAWKDOWN »

I attended the game last night and although the announced attendance figure was officially announced as 872, I thought it looked to be over 1,000 in the stands & in the restaurant combined.

Someone posted that attendance may be down because the overall quality of the skill/speed has gone downhill. I respectfully disagree with that observation; I see a very fast-paced game now where no team has a plodder or two who can't skate very well. Most players generally seem smaller than in past seasons, whereby the Sugar Kings D-man Spencer Comelli is a noticeable giant on the ice compared to everyone else.

I have watched this league going as far back as when 15 year-olds Joe Thornton (St. Thomas) & Boyd Devereaux (Stratford) were obvious young standouts who you knew were going to go on to better things at higher levels of hockey, and they were marquee star players in their respective leagues. As well, Logan Couture (St. Thomas) had a high-end level shooting ability that stood out above the older players, but he was the last of the 15 year-olds allowed to play junior B thanks to a subsequent rule change. So if anything, the teams these days don't have the young standout star talents, but the teams are overall faster & move the puck quicker than in the past.

As for this game: I was impressed with the puck movement at the top of London's PP units last night as they employed a rotating umbrella of 3 players to maintain constant motion, however they could not work the puck often enough to an open man in the slot to generate many great chances. Credit Elmira's PK units for usually getting a stick in the passing or shooting lane, as well as Reinhart being there to come up with the saves when needed. He is certainly as advertised as a great quick goalie with a very good glove. He did kick the net off a few times in period #2 with his left skate when lying prone on the ice, but to my eye it appeared that particular post wasn't anchored very well. (It rarely occurred in periods #1 & 3 if at all) Elmiras' Skinner took an unnecessary selfish penalty in the 2nd period that was a slash to the shin pads well after the whistle that I'm sure coach Canal wasn't happy with. IMO the Sugar Kings are playing with fire if they continue to give London more PP's each game.

Interesting results so far given the territorial edge in play/shots in favour of London. But Elmira works very hard & they seem to generate good scoring chances off of London turnovers in Elmira's defensive zone, much like the short-handed goal by McIntyre in period 2.

One last observation/question, is why the officials came from the Mid-west division for this game? I thought they tried to have un-affiliated officials from either competing division involved. Not a complaint, just a curious observation.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cal 99ers »

Blackhawk,I agree, and why those 2 refs, considering how they made the last couple of games about themselves instead of showcasing the great hockey thats being played thru these and the jrC playoffs. We know these teams scout each other, pretty good, and London couldn't help notice how aggressive Elmiras penalty kill is, so they have to keep the puck moving to counter Elmiras tactic. Smaller ice surface in Elmira will make it easier for Elmira to get to the points, like they did against their past foes in these playoffs. IMO, it's going to be a different type off game. I think Elmira will play a more aggressive counterattack game, to the speed of the Caledonia game we saw last week. I don't think London has seen that speed yet, and it's going to be a good test for London,with those quick little forwards.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by RocketGirl »

BLACKHAWKDOWN wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:32 pmOne last observation/question, is why the officials came from the Mid-west division for this game? I thought they tried to have un-affiliated officials from either competing division involved. Not a complaint, just a curious observation.
Since they no longer have the round robin, they no longer have the rule of out of Conference referees.

I thought Frede and Rawn did a good job last night. Let them play the game, which is what you want in the finals. There were some calls that they didn't make that they could have, but they let it go and made for a good game to watch.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cal 99ers »

1:10 left in the 2nd, Elmira looks pretty good 5 on 5. London looks a little demoralized.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cal 99ers »

After reading the article in May 1st London newspaper, I got the impression that London thought they were better than Caledonia and Elmira would be a breeze. From what I've seen, don't think London could handle the Falcons either.All year long people have been saying, it's easy to look good when your division (the Golden)is weak.IMO that seems to amply more for the west. Must give some credit for good sportsmanship on London,12 isn't diving anymore and 20 has kept his elbows down.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by SugarKing »

Cal 99ers wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 1:23 pm After reading the article in May 1st London newspaper, I got the impression that London thought they were better than Caledonia and Elmira would be a breeze. From what I've seen, don't think London could handle the Falcons either.All year long people have been saying, it's easy to look good when your division (the Golden)is weak.IMO that seems to amply more for the west. Must give some credit for good sportsmanship on London,12 isn't diving anymore and 20 has kept his elbows down.
Not sure how you can argue that any team in the Shoe is better than either team in the Finals. You are a clearly biased. The two conferences that are represented are The West and The Mid-West. Mid-West having two of those teams. London walked through The mid west champions Listowel, and Elmira beat Caledonia. Elmira, as a wild card, is handing it to London. Watching the Kings in all three games, London has had trouble beating Reinhardt. Outside of maybe 2 or 3 periods, you could say London had the better skaters, but each team has a goalie, and Reinhardt is the MVP. Plain and simple. Elmira players have openly admitted london had been the better team up until game 3. Credit to both teams in the finals, Elmira up 3-0, and they won't take it for granted because the respect that London is a very good team deserving to be in the finals. Caledonia and St.Catherines are after thoughts. Winner of this finals will show who has the best division, and also the second best. We all know who the worst is.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Port hockey1 »

Cal 99ers wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 1:23 pm After reading the article in May 1st London newspaper, I got the impression that London thought they were better than Caledonia and Elmira would be a breeze. From what I've seen, don't think London could handle the Falcons either.All year long people have been saying, it's easy to look good when your division (the Golden)is weak.IMO that seems to amply more for the west. Must give some credit for good sportsmanship on London,12 isn't diving anymore and 20 has kept his elbows down.
Well said!!!
by SugarKing » Mon May 01, 2017 2:03 pm


We all know who the worst is.
The division that won 3 straight Cups... :smt003
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cal 99ers »

Living in the Mid-west area I can go to London, Listowel and Welland with little effort.My friends and I can see a Kitchener, Elmira, 99ers game one night then a Vairs Niagara the next night. I didn't think Listowel or Elmira were very strong because they weren't that strong against the 99ers. St Catherines and Caledonia had their share of OHL players, both with sweat hands as good and as fast as Londons.Other than Smilsky, they were 6'1" 6'3". Like Londons games Reinhart shone,and the Vairs had a lot more chances then London had. I don't think the Falcons could beat Elmiras goalie either, but I'd put money on a Falcon sweep of London.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by jfvoll »

Port hockey1 wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 3:19 pm
by SugarKing » Mon May 01, 2017 2:03 pm


We all know who the worst is.
The division that won 3 straight Cups... :smt003
That was one team winning the cups, not 3 different teams, the past 4 seasons the GH finals have been the same 2 teams, its hard to believe the GH as the lowest form because of teams like Buffalo, Pelham, even the stuff Thorold pulled off this year.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by BlackJacket »

Cal 99ers wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 5:27 pm Living in the Mid-west area I can go to London, Listowel and Welland with little effort.My friends and I can see a Kitchener, Elmira, 99ers game one night then a Vairs Niagara the next night. I didn't think Listowel or Elmira were very strong because they weren't that strong against the 99ers. St Catherines and Caledonia had their share of OHL players, both with sweat hands as good and as fast as Londons.Other than Smilsky, they were 6'1" 6'3". Like Londons games Reinhart shone,and the Vairs had a lot more chances then London had. I don't think the Falcons could beat Elmiras goalie either, but I'd put money on a Falcon sweep of London.
holy hot takes. so bias
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by zantimisfit »

Cal 99ers wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 5:27 pm I'd put money on a Falcon sweep of London.
I'd love to take that bet. No way the Falcons would sweep London. By the way Cal 99ers, I know exactly who you are. You're that old fart with the grey goatee, glasses and the Leaf cap. You may have watched a lot of hockey games in your time, but you know sweet FA. Still remember you saying that Elmira was no better than Ancaster!!! probably based on how they played against Brantford in a totally meaningless regular season game.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by StCathFalcons »

I'd bet on the Falcons beating London head to head. In six or seven. Definitely not sweeping them. Even beat Listowel.

But when you run in to a goalie like Reinhardt, or Furlong of the past...you need a number of special players to be able to beat him. When the Falcons got in as a wild card, and lost to Caledonia in 7...game 7 in overtime (might have been double overtime), I would argue that the Falcons were the better team from the D up. But Furlong was so so special. He stole that series.

I don't think the Falcons could have beaten Reinhardt twice, let alone four times. Even with Smilsky and Main up front, and DiTomoso from the back. It wouldn't have been enough fire power.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cali vairs! »

StCathFalcons wrote: Tue May 02, 2017 11:43 am I'd bet on the Falcons beating London head to head. In six or seven. Definitely not sweeping them. Even beat Listowel.

But when you run in to a goalie like Reinhardt, or Furlong of the past...you need a number of special players to be able to beat him. When the Falcons got in as a wild card, and lost to Caledonia in 7...game 7 in overtime (might have been double overtime), I would argue that the Falcons were the better team from the D up. But Furlong was so so special. He stole that series.

I don't think the Falcons could have beaten Reinhardt twice, let alone four times. Even with Smilsky and Main up front, and DiTomoso from the back. It wouldn't have been enough fire power.
Game didn't go to OT in wild card game 7. Pretty sure it was a 3-1 final with a empty netter. I would say that the Falcons would likely beat london. London is skilled but St kitts has the D to shut them down as well as Savoury.
zantimisfit wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 10:23 pm
I'd love to take that bet. No way the Falcons would sweep London. By the way Cal 99ers, I know exactly who you are. You're that old fart with the grey goatee, glasses and the Leaf cap.
Didn't know it was important to know who everybody is. Its a forum for discussion. Idk how u would know who he is but good for u. Have a gold star. Im pretty sure people just want to talk on here and share there opinions.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by SugarKing »

Cali vairs! wrote: Tue May 02, 2017 9:05 pm
StCathFalcons wrote: Tue May 02, 2017 11:43 am I'd bet on the Falcons beating London head to head. In six or seven. Definitely not sweeping them. Even beat Listowel.

But when you run in to a goalie like Reinhardt, or Furlong of the past...you need a number of special players to be able to beat him. When the Falcons got in as a wild card, and lost to Caledonia in 7...game 7 in overtime (might have been double overtime), I would argue that the Falcons were the better team from the D up. But Furlong was so so special. He stole that series.

I don't think the Falcons could have beaten Reinhardt twice, let alone four times. Even with Smilsky and Main up front, and DiTomoso from the back. It wouldn't have been enough fire power.
Game didn't go to OT in wild card game 7. Pretty sure it was a 3-1 final with a empty netter. I would say that the Falcons would likely beat london. London is skilled but St kitts has the D to shut them down as well as Savoury.
zantimisfit wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 10:23 pm
I'd love to take that bet. No way the Falcons would sweep London. By the way Cal 99ers, I know exactly who you are. You're that old fart with the grey goatee, glasses and the Leaf cap.
Didn't know it was important to know who everybody is. Its a forum for discussion. Idk how u would know who he is but good for u. Have a gold star. Im pretty sure people just want to talk on here and share there opinions.
What are you guys even talking about?? Neither Caledonia or St.Kitts can beat Elmira or London. THEY DIDNT MAKE IT!!!!
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by StCathFalcons »

SugarKing wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 7:28 am What are you guys even talking about?? Neither Caledonia or St.Kitts can beat Elmira or London. THEY DIDNT MAKE IT!!!!
I said I didn't think the Falcons would be Elmira. And just because the Falcons didn't make it to the round robin, doesn't mean they (or Caledonia)couldn't beat London? Elmira made it in to the round robin by one goal differential. Skin of teeth. Don't get too cocky because you have a solid team with a shutdown goalie. Your logic is illogical. Listowel beat Elmira, which I guess by your logic means they're really the best team? You see, it doesn't' quite work that way.

Nothing wrong with supporting your team, but don't be delusional about it.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by StCathFalcons »

Cali vairs! wrote: Tue May 02, 2017 9:05 pmGame didn't go to OT in wild card game 7. Pretty sure it was a 3-1 final with a empty netter.
You're right, just found it on old site. 3-1 win for 'Vairs in game 7. (my bad) :oops:
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by SugarKing »

StCathFalcons wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 2:27 pm
SugarKing wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 7:28 am What are you guys even talking about?? Neither Caledonia or St.Kitts can beat Elmira or London. THEY DIDNT MAKE IT!!!!
I said I didn't think the Falcons would be Elmira. And just because the Falcons didn't make it to the round robin, doesn't mean they (or Caledonia)couldn't beat London? Elmira made it in to the round robin by one goal differential. Skin of teeth. Don't get too cocky because you have a solid team with a shutdown goalie. Your logic is illogical. Listowel beat Elmira, which I guess by your logic means they're really the best team? You see, it doesn't' quite work that way.

Nothing wrong with supporting your team, but don't be delusional about it.
Nothing more delusional than saying teams that couldn't make it to a final, beat a team that's in the final. And no my logic isn't that Listowel is the best because they beat Elmira. London walked through Listowel. To be honest, I don't agree with the wild Card scenario anyways. I just can't understand people saying a team is better than a team that made it further. If they were the better team, they would be there.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by cpt obvious »

"Nothing more delusional than saying teams that couldn't make it to a final, beat a team that's in the final. And no my logic isn't that Listowel is the best because they beat Elmira. London walked through Listowel. To be honest, I don't agree with the wild Card scenario anyways. I just can't understand people saying a team is better than a team that made it further. If they were the better team, they would be there."
[/quote]

Took the words right out of my mouth. Well said.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by Cali vairs! »

[quote=SugarKing wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 7:28 am What are you guys even talking about?? Neither Caledonia or St.Kitts can beat Elmira or London. THEY DIDNT MAKE IT!!!!
Nothing more delusional than saying teams that couldn't make it to a final, beat a team that's in the final. And no my logic isn't that Listowel is the best because they beat Elmira. London walked through Listowel. To be honest, I don't agree with the wild Card scenario anyways. I just can't understand people saying a team is better than a team that made it further. If they were the better team, they would be there.
[/quote]
Wow you are really delusional if you believe that. St kitts is a very strong team themselves which could have beat Caledonia in a series too. Maybe you should give another team respect. Your team shouldn't even be in right now so i don't get what you are so cocky about. Teams play different against different teams. Right now its Reinhart winning the suthy. Ive always heard Elmira has a few ignorant fans, guess we found one.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by RocketGirl »

In 5 attempts, St Catharines has yet to beat Caledonia in a 7 game series.
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by oldtymer »

Interesting conversations ... the fact is London is playing Elmira .. end of story . Coulda, woulda , shoulda means squat, zip, nil nothing . The top two teams are London and Elmira .. end of story. Give them their due .. Everyone else lost ..
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Re: Sutherland Cup Finals; London vs Elmira

Post by BlackJacket »

But.., but..., but....,

exactly how I feel old tymer
Can play out woulda coulda''s this that till the cows come home
Give teams there their due
A Chicago fan thinks the Blackhawks predators series should be played over again because it was a fluke win he's 100% sure
Feels it does a disservice to the NHL and the hawks and he's watched the hawks play great hockey for months roba them of what they are truely capable of
If the hawks lose again I will accept it wasn't a fluke
People are dillusional
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