Owners need to come up with a plan

[Port hockey1]

A lot of talk this off-season about some teams failing to be able to ice a contender repeatedly. It seams every year there's those same 2 or 3 teams in each division that simply isn't at the same compete level as the rest of their division. This seams to happen in cycles mostly. But that's a big part of the problem.

A rebuild should be a 2-3 year plan, not a 10-15 year disaster. The team's that find themselves at the bottom year after year need to start taking their programs seriously. Because there's a solid group of teams that win for a year or two, then rebuild for 2-3 years. That's what the smaller markets need to do to be successful at this level. It isn't all about money. Loyalty and small 'perks' goes a long way.

In the West it's St.Marys & Lambton Shores. In the Shoe it's Pelham & Welland. And at one point, Fort Erie. But there's a classic example of how to attract players and ice a competitive team. The Meteors don't have money to toss around, but look at the team they iced this past year.

The team's who continue to tank year after year, while making up excuses for their lack of talent are making the league look bad. It's time that the GOJHL gets on these teams. They need to be forced to come up with a realistic plan, and answer to the league if it doesn't work out. Just my thoughts on this topic.

[Oglethorp]

I know someone is going to attack Caledonia soon but the league has taken measures to make it harder to built a team by recruiting older players. The league has given all the teams the tools the need to be competitive. That said, for most of these struggling teams they need to figure out why they struggle every year, without blaming Caledonia/Chatham/London etc for their own short comings. In recent years St Thomas has done a great job of not taking a backseat to London by getting top end players from outside the area, promoting local players and scooping up the best players falling out of London. Teams like Sarnia and Stratford lead league attendance for a reason, they give the fans what the fans want. The best teams in the league are run by hockey people, not frozen food distributors and baseball managers. The London Knights and Windsor Spitfires both had dramatic turnarounds when the hockey people took over from the executive chefs and businessmen.

[BillyTheKid]

I know someone is going to attack Caledonia soon but the league has taken measures to make it harder to built a team by recruiting older players. The league has given all the teams the tools the need to be competitive. That said, for most of these struggling teams they need to figure out why they struggle every year, without blaming Caledonia/Chatham/London etc for their own short comings. In recent years St Thomas has done a great job of not taking a backseat to London by getting top end players from outside the area, promoting local players and scooping up the best players falling out of London. Teams like Sarnia and Stratford lead league attendance for a reason, they give the fans what the fans want. The best teams in the league are run by hockey people, not frozen food distributors and baseball managers. The London Knights and Windsor Spitfires both had dramatic turnarounds when the hockey people took over from the executive chefs and businessmen.

I agree with you completely on this topic. The owners should just own the team and get the right ppl in there running there team if they know nothing about the game. Ppl can say whatever they want about Caledonia I'm not saying by no means but he stays in the back ground and let's Rizz and Bully run the show. The owner can own whatever he wants frozen food baseball teams or a candy shop who cares but get the right ppl in place to run these programs. Another big problem is now of days tho you can get a kid at 16 or 17 one good year in the league one of these top teams will go after him and give him what he wants and the bottom feeders and compete with that. It's not like it used to be when you signed with the first Jr team that signed now of days it's all about what will you give me to sign here if you don't think that then give your head a shake. It's sad the way JR hockey has gone but hey that's life I guess. I know it's been going on for a long time but I think it's gotten out of hand now. There not going to kick teams out of the league just bc there's terrible year after year as long as they keep paying there league fees the OHA is happy right? Kids are spoiled now of days and there going to go where ever they get the best package. Example no sorry I'm not signing in sarnia bc Waterloo has offered to buy my 12 new one pieces and skates I'm telling you it happens more then what you think. You think it's Jr hockey all that stuff is taking care of well know it's not some teams have limits on sticks some teams go half on skates hell some teams hand out stick vouchers. So if things are going to change I guess every team is going to have start treating there players the way Caledonia treats there players so these other owners better start selling more frozen hot dogs more ball jerseys and hats or more sour keys and skittles bc believe until every team treats there's players like the Vairs get treated every stud in the league is going to want to go there or any other rich team. Is it right ? No but put your self in that kids shoes who's getting offered everything under the sun and I'm not saying money and see what you would do

[ILuvHackey]

Yes, some teams can offer more. However, a lot of kids know sometimes the best place is the place where I will play. Teams without the budgets to offer nice things can offer that too. It comes down to scouting, which you'd be surprised to learn some teams don't. I have a buddy who does a ton for a Jr. B team that's a bit of a ways away from where we live in Cambridge. WHen he first wanted to get involved he contacted some local teams to see if they were looking for scouting VOLUNTEERs and a certain team told him that they don't need scouts, because players will find them.

No wonder they were consistently at the bottom.

[Oglethorp]

As the product on the ice falls so does the attendance. Players will talk openly among their peers about their experiences with teams. Some teams turn over large numbers during the season, generally not a good sign. Some teams see players move on to the OHL or Tier2 A or NCAA others see large numbers leave for Jr C. If there is a pattern there is a reason for it. A big part of running a Jr team properly is generating the revenue to sustain the teams everyday expenses. This is often achieved by selling the product in the off season to create and maintain interest. Announcing signings, promoting major sponsors is a great way to create an atmosphere . The players train hard in the off season the management needs to work just as hard.

Too often we hear teams crying that "we are a young team" or "we can't draw the revenue that the other teams do". If you want to attract the best try to be the best. Here they introduced and OHA fee, then added a GOJHL fee. What is next. Leagues outside Ontario don't have that.

Some teams claim to be cash strapped but are just trying to maximize profits at the expense of the players. Some teams don't have billets or they want the players to pay for their own billets, some teams aren't supplying as many sticks. I know of one team that is demanding that the new players buy their own blue helmet to play for them. And if they get traded they can keep a helmet that is of no use to them. Some don't sharpen skates but are then helpless when their top player loses an edge in a game. Some teams want the kids to drive them selves to road games so they don't have to pay for a bus or supply food after the game. Why would any one sign with a team like this if they had other options?

They league in its own best interest needs to thin these sub par teams out by establishing a minimum operating Budget that the members must adhere to as well as a minimum standard that must be supplied to the players. Transportation to all road games post game food on site skate sharpening basic equipment (helmet gloves pants and a number of sticks) off ice training all need to be supplied or the league should just say "sorry but this does not meet our minimum standard. They need to find ways to look after their own revenue without clawing it back from the players since they really are the teams most valuable assets. The better teams create more revenues, the not so well operated teams cut expenses.

[Port hockey1]

Yes, some teams can offer more. However, a lot of kids know sometimes the best place is the place where I will play. Teams without the budgets to offer nice things can offer that too. It comes down to scouting, which you'd be surprised to learn some teams don't. I have a buddy who does a ton for a Jr. B team that's a bit of a ways away from where we live in Cambridge. WHen he first wanted to get involved he contacted some local teams to see if they were looking for scouting VOLUNTEERs and a certain team told him that they don't need scouts, because players will find them.

No wonder they were consistently at the bottom.

That's exactly what I'm talking about here. I've seen smaller markets go out and raise funds by contacting local businesses for sponsorship. At one point the Port Colborne Sailors were one of those teams. They had a few years of being a .500 team, then they'd be contending for a top 3 finish for a year or two.

That was achieved by getting out there and asking for the support of the community. They even had sponsors from all over Niagara. That was before Toffolo bought, and destroyed the team.

But the point is winning can be achieved even in the tightest markets. If team's treat the community with respect, the community will rally around the team. Volunteers aren't that hard to find for housing players either. Port had several family's doing it for next to nothing.

Every time I read the excuses from these same teams, it makes me shake my head. Because people who've been around this league for a number of years aren't stupid. They know what's going on.

I just don't understand why the league allows it. Why isn't the league making these repeat offenders come up with realistic plans for success??? The league is basically saying they're fine with certain owners running their team's into the ground!

[Oglethorp]

The OHA needs to take a firm stance on this. This isn't like the OHL where the league stepping in to take control of a franchise to get it back on track will work. The OHA could make examples of a few teams like Pelham, St Marys and Lambton Shores since they do not seem to be able to figure out how to make themselves competitive. Relegate all 3 to Jr C for 1 year. At the conclusion of the 2016-17 season consider promoting up to 3 JR C teams to the GOJHL based on a competitive season, a financial plan and a development strategy going forward. The 3 would get heavy consideration if they turn things around. Then issue warnings to any teams that are in disarray that they could be next.

[RocketGirl]

How about instead of continually complaining about how the league or teams are run, you guys step up and volunteer.

[Port hockey1]

How about instead of continually complaining about how the league or teams are run, you guys step up and volunteer.

How do you know who does or doesn't volunteer? And people have the right to complain. How about instead of continually telling people what to do on here, you act like a member of the forum and stick to posting about the topics at hand.

[Oglethorp]

That is a very broad assumption that those on here don't volunteer or do anything but sit back and complain. If some people were able to understand what constructive criticism is the same teams would not be unable to compete year after year after year. When players want out every year there is a reason whether it is the league or certain teams.

Why does Leamington have strong teams with no university draw? Why do Sarnia and Stratford lead the lead in attendance continually even when they are .500 teams with no university draw. Why do top players leave for Jr A teams outside Ontario? Why does the GOJHL have higher attendance numbers if the OJ is a stronger league?

Some people here have had involvement with many teams and leagues at different levels and others are professional spectators. Either way all have a right to free speech and a valued opinion including the sparse crowds in attendance at some of the bottom feeders games. If players go elsewhere there is a reason. If the fans stop coming there is a reason. If a team can't compete consistently there is a reason.

Time to take the rose coloured glasses off and face reality. If you need to rely on other teams cuts to fill the core of your roster you are likely in the wrong league.

[RocketGirl]

I didn't say that there aren't posters on here that don't volunteer for teams. I volunteer for a team. I'm trying to help the Rockets get back to where we once were. I give them ideas all the time for how to get fans back, how to make some money, different things that we should be doing, etc.

Do you guys? Instead of sitting here saying, the league needs to do this, or this team needs to do that, the OHA needs to take care of this, why don't you step up and try to help.

[Oglethorp]

The Sedlak signing occuring this early is a positive sign that there is some desire to make a connection with the community. Not sure if that was RG's influence or a result of last seasons low attendance numbers. Many fans at the WMMC have voiced their thoughts on the lack of local players for a few years now. It shows a desire to work with local talent and connect with the community again. In recent years local kids were more of an after thought. Signing a local like Turner Balasin this early last season would have increased community support instead of focussing on London cuts.

Good idea whether it was your's or Bondzo's either way better community relations will bring in more fans, more fans should result in more revenue, more revenue should result in more resources, more resources will make it easier to attract better talent.

If re-connecting with the community is part of the Rockets plan I would call this a good start. A step in the right direction but still along way to go.

[BillyTheKid]

That is a very broad assumption that those on here don't volunteer or do anything but sit back and complain. If some people were able to understand what constructive criticism is the same teams would not be unable to compete year after year after year. When players want out every year there is a reason whether it is the league or certain teams.

Why does Leamington have strong teams with no university draw? Why do Sarnia and Stratford lead the lead in attendance continually even when they are .500 teams with no university draw. Why do top players leave for Jr A teams outside Ontario? Why does the GOJHL have higher attendance numbers if the OJ is a stronger league?

Some people here have had involvement with many teams and leagues at different levels and others are professional spectators. Either way all have a right to free speech and a valued opinion including the sparse crowds in attendance at some of the bottom feeders games. If players go elsewhere there is a reason. If the fans stop coming there is a reason. If a team can't compete consistently there is a reason.

Time to take the rose coloured glasses off and face reality. If you need to rely on other teams cuts to fill the core of your roster you are likely in the wrong league.

So your saying Ogie your team is in the wrong league? Bc my understanding that's all the rockets have been doing the last couple years all the nats cuts.

[Oglethorp]

That is a very broad assumption that those on here don't volunteer or do anything but sit back and complain. If some people were able to understand what constructive criticism is the same teams would not be unable to compete year after year after year. When players want out every year there is a reason whether it is the league or certain teams.

Why does Leamington have strong teams with no university draw? Why do Sarnia and Stratford lead the lead in attendance continually even when they are .500 teams with no university draw. Why do top players leave for Jr A teams outside Ontario? Why does the GOJHL have higher attendance numbers if the OJ is a stronger league?

Some people here have had involvement with many teams and leagues at different levels and others are professional spectators. Either way all have a right to free speech and a valued opinion including the sparse crowds in attendance at some of the bottom feeders games. If players go elsewhere there is a reason. If the fans stop coming there is a reason. If a team can't compete consistently there is a reason.

Time to take the rose coloured glasses off and face reality. If you need to rely on other teams cuts to fill the core of your roster you are likely in the wrong league.

So your saying Ogie your team is in the wrong league? Bc my understanding that's all the rockets have been doing the last couple years all the nats cuts.

My team? That would be another broad based assumption. I didn't think I favoured the Strathroy any more than St. Marys or Lambton Shores. LOL

[BillyTheKid]

That is a very broad assumption that those on here don't volunteer or do anything but sit back and complain. If some people were able to understand what constructive criticism is the same teams would not be unable to compete year after year after year. When players want out every year there is a reason whether it is the league or certain teams.

Why does Leamington have strong teams with no university draw? Why do Sarnia and Stratford lead the lead in attendance continually even when they are .500 teams with no university draw. Why do top players leave for Jr A teams outside Ontario? Why does the GOJHL have higher attendance numbers if the OJ is a stronger league?

Some people here have had involvement with many teams and leagues at different levels and others are professional spectators. Either way all have a right to free speech and a valued opinion including the sparse crowds in attendance at some of the bottom feeders games. If players go elsewhere there is a reason. If the fans stop coming there is a reason. If a team can't compete consistently there is a reason.

Time to take the rose coloured glasses off and face reality. If you need to rely on other teams cuts to fill the core of your roster you are likely in the wrong league.

So your saying Ogie your team is in the wrong league? Bc my understanding that's all the rockets have been doing the last couple years all the nats cuts.

My team? That would be another broad based assumption. I didn't think I favoured the Strathroy any more than St. Marys or Lambton Shores. LOL

Well all 3 of those teams are just other teams cast offs lol.... Working for the pens in the play offs tho maybe it will work for them lol

[Oglethorp]

All 3 are JrC caliber teams. Parents on the bench or in the broadcast booth/players don't always end up with matching equipment because it isn't supplied/can't retain many players from one season to the next/players have to find their own transportation to road games/ team doesn't feed the players after the game. All signs that they aren't financially equipped to be at this level. I say add Pelham to the mix and relegate them all to JrC until they can get their ducks in a row.

[RocketGirl]

I'm just curious, what are the minimum standards that each team should follow?

[Marcie]

Perhaps the league should mandate certain minimum standards that all teams have to follow regarding billeting, transportaion, equipment, etc.

[Oglethorp]

I am not sure why the league would not have expectations that should be upheld. Transportation should be provided to all road games at this level. The team should arrive and leave together. There is also a safety aspect. Imagine a 17 year old having to drive himself home after an injury like a concussion in a snowstorm. Why are parents still driving their kids to the road games? This isn't minor hockey anymore.

Should Jr C teams look more professional on the ice the JrB. This goes to league image. 2 years ago St Mary's kids had different coloured helmets and pants. Minor hockey teams look better than that. The CCHL teams all use CCM sticks helmets pants and gloves because CCM is a league sponsor. Anything except skates that can be seen from the stands is team supplied. All Jr B should be somewhere between JrA and JrC.

Billets are a team expense when they recruit outside their local area. The better JrA leagues recognize this and it is looked after and paid for by the team.

Where would the teams get the money for this some may ask. Traditionally it was done through corporate sponsorships and with ticket revenue through higher attendance by putting a competitive team on the ice that has players the fan base has an interest in. Building teams around players that are cuts from 2 or 3 other teams while good local players doesn't generally help move the turnstiles. Give the fans what they want and they will come.

[Port hockey1]

I am not sure why the league would not have expectations that should be upheld. Transportation should be provided to all road games at this level. The team should arrive and leave together. There is also a safety aspect. Imagine a 17 year old having to drive himself home after an injury like a concussion in a snowstorm. Why are parents still driving their kids to the road games? This isn't minor hockey anymore.

Should Jr C teams look more professional on the ice the JrB. This goes to league image. 2 years ago St Mary's kids had different coloured helmets and pants. Minor hockey teams look better than that. The CCHL teams all use CCM sticks helmets pants and gloves because CCM is a league sponsor. Anything except skates that can be seen from the stands is team supplied. All Jr B should be somewhere between JrA and JrC.

Billets are a team expense when they recruit outside their local area. The better JrA leagues recognize this and it is looked after and paid for by the team.

Where would the teams get the money for this some may ask. Traditionally it was done through corporate sponsorships and with ticket revenue through higher attendance by putting a competitive team on the ice that has players the fan base has an interest in. Building teams around players that are cuts from 2 or 3 other teams while good local players doesn't generally help move the turnstiles. Give the fans what they want and they will come.

Excellent post!

[ILuvHackey]

The NAHL, largely considered one of the best non-major junior hockey leagues in North America, does not pay for billets. The players do. Something to think about before crucifying our league teams for various indiscretions.

While I believe there needs to be some minimums -- matching equipment, team bus, etc., I don't fault teams (many of whom are community owned) that try to keep costs down. I know in talking to some teams they've mentioned paying for a bus (coach, school, whatever) for road games, but depending on how close the game was, half the kids wanted to drive regardless. (i.e. Cambridge to Kitchener) For safety they should have a bus in case a kid who drove their needs to be driven following the game, but you can't fault some boards for being a bit stingy when they see a half used bus.

What I'm saying is that while some things need to be mandated, we also need to be aware that there are many community owned teams in a very saturated area. Available money gets harder and harder to come by each year. I know that Waterloo, for example, is paying back a large amount of debt from years of foolish spending, and therefore have very tight budgets. The team has been around longer than most (70+ years?) and almost went under a few years ago because of the debt. New ownership has come in and is paying that off and keeping team afloat, all while being a very competitive team each year.

Just my thoughts.

[RocketGirl]

I was thinking about this over the weekend. I could potentially be swayed on the minimum operating standards, but I still don't think it will solve anything. You will still have teams that will be able to provide that minimum and not much else, you'll get teams that will say, 'oh, we only HAVE to provide this' and will only do the minimum, and then you'll get others that can and will go above and beyond. So if you have a kid that has the option to sign with either team, which one do you think he's going to go with?

And also, this relegation to Jr. C, how are you planning to do this? What is the criteria? Is there an option that if the team performs better in Jr. C, they can move back up? How are you deciding what team you're pulling up from Jr. C? Does that team have the right to veto it and say, I don't want to move up, which I can see happening. When you have a team like Essex or Dorchester or Grimsby, that dominate year after year after year, they're the big fish in the small pond and don't want to become the small fish in the big pond.

Think about this. If you were to move Lambton Shores to Jr. C, presumably they'd go into the Great Lakes, which I'm sure they'd have a few teams have an issue with that, but what team would you pull up? It can't be Essex or Lakeshore because you can't have 1 owner with 2 teams in the same league. Regardless of which team you decide to pull up, there's going to be a GOJHL team not happy about it, due to location, but also some of these teams are affiliate teams. So you pull up a team and maybe they do well at this level, or maybe they do horribly, remember, to run a Jr. B team is a lot more expensive than a Jr. C team. So you bring up this team and perhaps they fair no better than the Predators did. So then after a few seasons, due to your relegation rules, you send them back down and you've absolutely ruined this organization. To me, doesn't sound like something the OHA is going to do.

It sounds like an easy solution, to just relegate teams back and forth, but it's not that simple when you break it down. There are all kinds of logistics you have to think about.

[Port hockey1]

I was thinking about this over the weekend. I could potentially be swayed on the minimum operating standards, but I still don't think it will solve anything. You will still have teams that will be able to provide that minimum and not much else, you'll get teams that will say, 'oh, we only HAVE to provide this' and will only do the minimum, and then you'll get others that can and will go above and beyond. So if you have a kid that has the option to sign with either team, which one do you think he's going to go with?

And also, this relegation to Jr. C, how are you planning to do this? What is the criteria? Is there an option that if the team performs better in Jr. C, they can move back up? How are you deciding what team you're pulling up from Jr. C? Does that team have the right to veto it and say, I don't want to move up, which I can see happening. When you have a team like Essex or Dorchester or Grimsby, that dominate year after year after year, they're the big fish in the small pond and don't want to become the small fish in the big pond.

Think about this. If you were to move Lambton Shores to Jr. C, presumably they'd go into the Great Lakes, which I'm sure they'd have a few teams have an issue with that, but what team would you pull up? It can't be Essex or Lakeshore because you can't have 1 owner with 2 teams in the same league. Regardless of which team you decide to pull up, there's going to be a GOJHL team not happy about it, due to location, but also some of these teams are affiliate teams. So you pull up a team and maybe they do well at this level, or maybe they do horribly, remember, to run a Jr. B team is a lot more expensive than a Jr. C team. So you bring up this team and perhaps they fair no better than the Predators did. So then after a few seasons, due to your relegation rules, you send them back down and you've absolutely ruined this organization. To me, doesn't sound like something the OHA is going to do.

It sounds like an easy solution, to just relegate teams back and forth, but it's not that simple when you break it down. There are all kinds of logistics you have to think about.

Interesting take, this whole topic has been an interesting read.

[fanofgame]

For those of you who don't know there is a minimum requirment of all teams, a guideline if you will that all teams must follow. it is usually best to do your homework before you state things you do not know. Read up and get informed
http://www.ohahockey.ca/files/uploaded_ ... -FINAL.pdf

[Port hockey1]

For those of you who don't know there is a minimum requirment of all teams, a guideline if you will that all teams must follow. it is usually best to do your homework before you state things you do not know. Read up and get informed
http://www.ohahockey.ca/files/uploaded_ ... -FINAL.pdf

I think the point of this thread was that the requirement's aren't enough. If they were we wouldn't see the same few teams at the bottom every year.

[fanofgame]

Let's face it enough will never be enough there will always be owners with more money than others willing to spend the extra amount if they feel it's going to benefit their chances at a championship it doesn't matter whether it's the gojhl the OHL or even the NHL players and parents will always be persuaded if that is their mindset to get the most for their Buck now if anybody thinks that the owners are making big dollars off of their Junior B hockey teams they are crazy the way to make a small fortune in Junior B Hockey is to start with a large Fortune. There will be players that we'll start off the year with a certain amount of sticks, off and snapped one over the bench because I've had a bad shift and expect the team to replace it the sense of entitlement is Extreme

[Port hockey1]

Let's face it enough will never be enough there will always be owners with more money than others willing to spend the extra amount if they feel it's going to benefit their chances at a championship it doesn't matter whether it's the gojhl the OHL or even the NHL players and parents will always be persuaded if that is their mindset to get the most for their Buck now if anybody thinks that the owners are making big dollars off of their Junior B hockey teams they are crazy the way to make a small fortune in Junior B Hockey is to start with a large Fortune. There will be players that we'll start off the year with a certain amount of sticks, off and snapped one over the bench because I've had a bad shift and expect the team to replace it the sense of entitlement is Extreme

I'm not disagreeing with you. I realize that there will always be those team's with better resources than others. But that doesn't mean the smaller markets can't compete. The Mid-West is a great example, most seasons there's 6-7 team's with .500 records or better. Another example is Leamington, they don't have deep pockets, neither does LaSalle for that matter but both teams have been solid the last several years.

Team's like Lambton Shores, St.Marys, Pelham, to name a few, are content with losing year after year. St.Marys used to be a very good team & hockey town. They need to market their product better, find people who want to be there in the leadership roles.

It would just be nice to have a league where most team's can skate with each other on any given night.

[Dr. Pepper]

As I have said many many times before the problem is teams in the GOJHL have no leverage when a player no longer wants to play for them. Lets talk St Marys, Lambton Shores and Strathroy in the west. These three teams start off at a disadvantage because they are all small centers compared to the other GOJHL towns in the west. St Marys and Strathroy are both BB centers and Lambton Shores are a C center so the hope of finding enough home grown talent good enough to play Jr.B is lower than it will be in London, Sarnia, Chatham, Lasalle and Leamington. Then factor in that there is no college or university in those towns that the big four have to bring young men in and they have a much harder time to recruit than the others, so that basically leaves these teams taking the castoffs that the big guys don't want. As I have also said many times, St Marys is forced to become a development team for future London Nationals because London tends to not sign young players they generally go with an older team, so the young kids go to the Lincolns because they want to play Jr B, they stay for a year or two and than after they hit 19 - 20 years old and the Lincolns have developed them, they want to go back to London to play with friends and have a chance to win a championship and London now wants them back because they are now older and developed and the Lincolns are forced to accommodate a trade because the OHA says they cannot force a player to play for them and they cannot hold a players rights that doesn't want to play for them and the cycle continues.

Then you have the misconception of development for these guys that go on after their Jr.B careers are over, for example, Sarnia Legionnaires laying claim to developing goalie Andrew Masters who has received an NCAA Div 1 scholarship to Miami of Ohio.

A quote from manager Bob Williamson

"It's fantastic,” Williamson said about the latest news. “It shows us we're picking the right kids and moving them on to the next level".

(lol) What !, the kid played two years in St Marys and 12 games in Sarnia at the end of the 2014- 15 season and yet Sarnia is picking the right kids.

He goes on to say

"Williamson added the success of former Legionnaires will help the club attract more talent. “News like this always helps with recruiting,” he said. “We've got a good name out there.

And there it is, the Lincs loose a player and Sarnia gets a boost to help them recruit players.

Now as a team there is no better than St Marys for asking kids in their final year of Jr eligibility if they want to be moved at the deadline to a contender so they can have a chance to win before they are done playing Jr B, some kids stay out of loyalty, but recently more and more have been taking the opportunity to move on, like for example the 2012-13 season when their top 4 scorers, their top defenseman who the year previous had been part of the London Knights Memorial cup run, and their goalie all in their final year of eligibility moved on at the deadline for a chance to go deep into playoffs, St Marys missed the playoffs by 8 pts because they played the final 14 games or so with basically a midget team, who knows, if those 6 players stay perhaps the Lincolns make the playoffs and maybe win a round or two, anything can happen.

This is different than a kid with a year or two of playing eligibility left who demands a trade because he no longer wants to play for the team that took him in, developed him, gave him a place to play when no other would because you were too young and undeveloped but now would like to have you back. If you want to be moved for school reasons that's one thing, otherwise suck it up, show some pride and loyalty and try to turn things around.

This problem is not unique with St Marys but it is certainly a problem that the smaller centers face every year, take 2013-14 for example, if Kyle Brothers, Adam Arseneault, and Tanner Ferguson are told, if you want to play Jr B this year than you will play for the Lambton Shores Predators because they hold your Jr B rights than perhaps they finish in 3rd place and the Maroons finish out of the playoffs.
We will never know because you can have all the "minimum requirements" you want but if these teams have no leverage or rights to hold the players that they develop than things will not change and the cycle will continue.

[Port hockey1]

I agree with you about the players rights. Once a team signs a kid, they should own him for his entire career.

[Oglethorp]

Then you have the misconception of development for these guys that go on after their Jr.B careers are over, for example, Sarnia Legionnaires laying claim to developing goalie Andrew Masters who has received an NCAA Div 1 scholarship to Miami of Ohio.

A quote from manager Bob Williamson

"It's fantastic,” Williamson said about the latest news. “It shows us we're picking the right kids and moving them on to the next level".

(lol) What !, the kid played two years in St Marys and 12 games in Sarnia at the end of the 2014- 15 season and yet Sarnia is picking the right kids.

He goes on to say

"Williamson added the success of former Legionnaires will help the club attract more talent. “News like this always helps with recruiting,” he said. “We've got a good name out there.

And there it is, the Lincs loose a player and Sarnia gets a boost to help them recruit players.

Now as a team there is no better than St Marys for asking kids in their final year of Jr eligibility if they want to be moved at the deadline to a contender so they can have a chance to win before they are done playing Jr B, some kids stay out of loyalty, but recently more and more have been taking the opportunity to move on, like for example the 2012-13 season when their top 4 scorers, their top defenseman who the year previous had been part of the London Knights Memorial cup run, and their goalie all in their final year of eligibility moved on at the deadline for a chance to go deep into playoffs, St Marys missed the playoffs by 8 pts because they played the final 14 games or so with basically a midget team, who knows, if those 6 players stay perhaps the Lincolns make the playoffs and maybe win a round or two, anything can happen.

This is different than a kid with a year or two of playing eligibility left who demands a trade because he no longer wants to play for the team that took him in, developed him, gave him a place to play when no other would because you were too young and undeveloped but now would like to have you back. If you want to be moved for school reasons that's one thing, otherwise suck it up, show some pride and loyalty and try to turn things around.

This problem is not unique with St Marys but it is certainly a problem that the smaller centers face every year, take 2013-14 for example, if Kyle Brothers, Adam Arseneault, and Tanner Ferguson are told, if you want to play Jr B this year than you will play for the Lambton Shores Predators because they hold your Jr B rights than perhaps they finish in 3rd place and the Maroons finish out of the playoffs.
We will never know because you can have all the "minimum requirements" you want but if these teams have no leverage or rights to hold the players that they develop than things will not change and the cycle will continue.

The Legionnaires have a solid history of moving players on to the next level and yes they do get to claim Andrew Masters as they were his last JrB club. Dr Pepper is correct that he developed in St Marys (likely because he saw more shots than he would elsewhere) but being showcased in Sarnia helped to raise his stock.

A few notes about Sarnia and Chatham, although they are both somewhat larger population bases the St Marys and Strathroy it is a stretch to say that they have access to more top end players. The Lambton Jr Sting and Chatham Cyclones AAA organizations almost always stuggle to win games in the Alliance at every level. The two powerhouse teams in the west are almost always the London Jr Knights and the Elgin Middlesex Chiefs. St Thomas always gets the top London cuts and has always had a great working relationship with the Elgin Middlesex Chiefs. The Strathroy Rockets for example haven't put a minor midget Elgin player on the ice since Jeff Van Vliet coached the team. Until this year the priority with Strathroy and St Marys was to sign young London players and leave the Elgin grads to go elsewhere.

These have nots need to start working with their what they have in their backyard 1st. Those are the players most likely to stay long term. Stop crying about being a smaller center and how much money other teams have. Look for ways to increase your attendance, Sarnia (competing with an OHL team for fan base) and Stratford are consistently over 1000 fans per game. If you are only drawing 100-300 fans you are obviously not entertaining your spectators very well or they would come. Players always leave for a reason, as noted by Teddy McGeen coaching change is a factor in Chatham this year, Strathroy had kids leave in droves for JrC annually and blamed the individual players rather than addressing the root cause, Lambton Shores was loaded with potential this year, but ended up trading most of their top end to finish 9th, and St Marys has been a revolving door of talent for years regardless of who the coach is. The only ones that can solve your problems is yourselves